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You can view the page at http://radarandlaserforum.com/conten...ting-3-15-2015
*First off, I want to express/say to both Vortex & joehemi my gratitude & Thank You's for performing AND sharing the results here, plus props to those who sent the loner RDs !
34.7 Results:
(Quote)-"Ok now, here's where things start to get a little weird.Almost every detector performed...w/ the battery handle leaning against the A-pillar to the left of the steering wheel dash hump." -
As you stated all RDs seemed to not do well & I believe this to possibly be a clue as to what was going on. It would appear to me that the radar source could very well be contributing to the issue you were experiencing, however not due to the orientation as you correctly indicate, but rather the positioning location is what I'm suggesting. I'll speculate further you introduced phase perturbations throughout the wavefront of the emitted signal caused by the sharp curvature of the W/S at this location acting as a weird size medium of varying thickness as a transmit Shaping Lens. It's not just the curve itself but also the transit-time propagation delay thru more "thicker" portions of glass where the curvature becomes much sharper in close proximity to meet the A-pillar.
Maybe next time you could have "joehemi" just lay the Stalker II on its side (gangsta style) on top of the dash hump for comparison to see what happens. ;)
This is interesting considering I didn't create this thread. Is someone posting under my name?
Is this an automated posting created when an article is posted with me as the contributing author?
Edit: Ohhhh, nevermind. This is a comment thread for an article. Got it. :)
Your original post was just promoted to an Article so readers can find it on the main page if they did not want to search the forums.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vortex
I just asked joehemi after reading your question and he said that all the Ka antennas were mounted in the exact same location. Trying to keep things apples to apples as much as possible as always. :) The only exception was the K band antenna where the antenna cable was really short so it was placed in the center of the dash.Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRocket
Speaking of followups, BRD just sent me a few more Unidens to see if we can find a new possible contender for the best pick for the affordable radar detector. :)
Thank you for clarifying, and for the article/post promotion!Quote:
Originally Posted by BestRadarDetectors
I'm glad to hear what "joehemi" said about the Gun locations, b/c that prompted me today to take my Stalker II MDR out (in the rain I should add) & try to see what I got thru W/S center & next to A-pillar. My ride doesn't have as sharp a curve as his. I found no diff. between the 2 locations on a narrow corridor (sans the curves & hills you guys had) of ~5,000ft. Max range w/ no rain was around 4300-4500ft from both W/S locations & same outside of Driver window. That surprised me a little b/c I expected some loss thru the W/S.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vortex
Light to med-light rain caused a reduction of range of ~400-500ft.
Same effects on my FalconHR, but ~600-800ft loss of range in the rain...I expected more.
Max range w/ no rain is ~ 3800ft for K-band.
Range distances above were obtained w/ Lidar gun.
p.s. - It now appears that the 34.7 range issues you experience could be humidity related possibly. Do you know what it was that day ?
What more could I possibly ask for than a life spent doing what I love?Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRocket
That's interesting about the detection capabilities in the rain. It's great to see that your tests showed the RD's to still be capable in the rain.Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRocket
I don't know the exact humidity levels on that day of testing, but I can tell you that it was rainy all day. :p
For the sake of consistency I prefer having no rain, but given that this is the PNW and rain is a pretty common occurrence here (and that they run radar in the rain too), I find it invaluable to test in the rain and see how my detectors fare. It doesn't make for the best uncontrolled-variable-free test ever though. It'd be cool to do the exact same test in the rain and dry to see the difference, but I have found recently that a small movement in the antenna's orientation can have a noticeable impact on the detector's detection capabilities, so trying to come back a different day and recreate the test doesn't totally satisfy the perfectionist in me, but it can be very telling nonetheless.
The humidity level is only part way down the path of where we should go trying to resolve the issue you had w/ 34.7GHz. Obviously 34.7 shouldn't be the only Ka frequency selectively subject to humidity level, but 33.8 & 35.5 should have indicated similar results but didn't. K-band range is far more impacted by humidity than Ka. Conditions for me yesterday were from extremely dry & transitioned to ~70-75 % humidity when the storm moved in mid-Morning. I would guess your humidity level there was 90 % plus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vortex
Can I assume you & joehemi were using full power (~25mw) 33.8 & 35.5 dash Models & not handguns ? I'm now beginning to wonder about the Stalker's output level. Were you using a +12v power cable feed to the gun handle or running on battery handle only ? If the Stalker had low output power this might explain what occurred. Instead of spending $$$ to have it Certified at a Calibration shop, how 'bout doing a max range check yourself on a remote rural road where you can catch a single vehicle coming at you at a time from 4k to 5k feet in distance.
When I did mine yesterday I had "Mode" set to ("FCLO") for approaching vehicles only as I guessed that's how you 2 were operating. Of course, larger vehicles (P/U & trucks) return more signal at greater distance than compact cars. This would be a cheap way to see if your Stalker is operating normally & has the same range results as mine does.
I think you're starting to overcomplicate things...
All the guns were standard guns. Bee III, Stalker II, and Golden Eagle for Ka. I don't remember which gun we used for K band, but it was also a standard gun. No trickery with Falcon HR's or anything.
The Stalker II is working fine, the calibration was good up to about a year ago, and we used a fully charged battery.
To add more data points and give us a better idea of the big picture, particularly without rain being a factor, here's a more recent test along similar lines. In that one we used a Bee III, Stalker II, Genesis II, and Python II. (Funny how they all have a II or III at the end of their name.) Anyways, in this one, overall from best to worst it was K band, 33.8, 34.7, 35.5.
Is it because of something inherent to the radar guns? Quite possibly. Are detectors more sensitive to some bands than others? That can be a factor too. Are there other factors involved that we may not be considering? That's a definite possibility as well.
This is why I like doing many, many tests. Things can happen in one test to make your results sometimes seem a bit wonky, sometimes a detector will have a freakishly good or bad detection, sometimes traffic will come in at just the right/wrong time to give you better or worse range than you normally would, etc.
I like looking at multiple tests to get a feel for the big picture and weed out any outliers within a single test. This test is one of many to consider when looking to understand how these tools work.
I'm not interested in using your Hot Link to that Forum as I'm on an extended leave of absence from there until they get serious about moving forward from the past.(Comments from Staff to my departure Post lacked a far from conciliatory tone or attitude as I suspected would happen!!! - so please refrain from repeating that.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Vortex
I wasn't attempting to complicate the inquiry, but rather pointing out the transmitted power level difference factors between the various models which could affect range.
Nominal / Maximum output power:Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRocket
MPH Bee III: 12-30 mW / 50 mW
Stalker II: 15 mW / 50 mW
Kustom Golden Eagle: Not in manual, but should be comparable with others
Decatur Genesis II: 5 mW (Interesting! This is lower than usual. I didn't know this.)
I've heard that the Bee III isn't as sensitive as some of the other units when it comes to receiving a return signal and so they amp up the output power, making things easier for detectors to pick up on which is why 33.8 often tests well for detectors.
The Genesis II has historically been a tougher unit to detect. I had assumed it was just because it's 35.5, but its output power is also a fraction of what the others generally put out. I don't have the numbers on the KGE to compare that to.
EDIT: I'm sorry, I just realized that the documentation I was looking at for the Genesis II covers the linearly polarized K band antenna, NOT the circularly polarized Ka antenna. I don't know the power output for the 35.5 antenna.
Yeah, those output numbers are typical of what I remember for all units except Decatur.
My Stalker II was 11 or 12mw when I got it 3yrs ago & have no idea what it is today. The majority of the time in use it's w/ the +12v cord when Testing to ensure max power out so it's within 3db of its big brother the DSR to near duplicate State Patrol (for detection distance purposes when testing friend's RDs) agencies using the DSR in NewEngland States.
I had no idea the Genesis II was only 5mw...wow. No wonder I hear complaints about sniffing that one out. Same goes for the FalconHR @ only 8mw.
One day I would like to see you report on absolute max range (flat road) for all of the above you are using on for cars only, not Semi trucks. I believe the DSR can do almost 2mi.
I think we've flogged your 34.7 short distance results w/o reaching any conclusive answer I'm afraid. :confusion:
Were you able to measure that yourself or was it on the certification documentation? It'd be fun to test that out manually and not have to send it out. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by RedRocket
That's a good idea. Battery life on these units is pretty excellent and while I assume that the output power on battery should be comparable to a power cable, I have no way of verifying that. Skimming through the documentation, I see no mention of output power being dependent upon the power source.Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRocket
The terrain that we have here isn't conducive to those sorts of tests. In fact it's one reason why I love seeing other people's tests where they have long flat straightaways. It's all curves, hills, and trees here. Finding a straightaway of even a mile or so typically requires driving way out of the way, and even then you have other cars which'll be driving around and so I won't be able to test the full length of the course to test out maximum range. So there's some tests that I can do here and some that are tough at best. It sounds like that may be a test that you'd be able to conduct more easily than I would.Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRocket
haha, well while I've seen detection range against Stalker be just fine in other tests which would lead me to believe there's not something wonky about this unit in particular, I really appreciate you also taking a look at the different possibilities and variables that could be leading to these results *independent of* the sensitivity of the RD's. It's something that's absolutely critical to testing and I love that other people may think of possibilities that never crossed my mind. It's kind of like open source radar detector testing. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by RedRocket
I'm kinda surprised that a few more didn't chime in here,too. Lemme also add that you've really earned my respect & admiration over the years for the quantity & especially professional QUALITY brought to the game for the benefit of the CM community. :thumb:Quote:
Originally Posted by Vortex
Wow. Excellent testing and write up! I watch all of your vids on youtube, and enjoy them greatly. Thanks for continuing to put out quality work Vortex!