Using ALP Radio Mute and Control Functions

I am getting ready to install my new ALP system. I have brought it up on the bench and upgraded the firmware. Everything is working as expected. I just wanted to validate my approach with others with respect to using the radio mute and control wire.

For the radio mute, my radio has a telecom mute that expects a ground signal in order to mute. It looks like the ALP radio mute puts out 5VDC UNTIL it is activated and then the voltage falls to 0VDC (ground) when triggered. I am not sure I can have 5VDC sitting on my radio mute most of the time prior to sensor activation. This means I will probably need to isolate this circuit with a 5VDC relay that, in turn, drags my radio mute to ground from an open state. Is this the way others have approached this?

For the control wire, it is opposite. The control wire sits at 0VDC UNTIL activation and then puts out 5VDC. I want use this 5VDC to drive a relay that cuts out my rear brake lights for the duration of activation that I have set (7 seconds). In case I get hit from the rear, I don't want the LEO to see my brake lights come on.

I just wanted to validate this approach with others and see what others have done.

Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Krus8r

I am getting ready to install my new ALP system. I have brought it up on the bench and upgraded the firmware. Everything is working as expected. I just wanted to validate my approach with others with respect to using the radio mute and control wire.

For the radio mute, my radio has a telecom mute that expects a ground signal in order to mute. It looks like the ALP radio mute puts out 5VDC UNTIL it is activated and then the voltage falls to 0VDC (ground) when triggered. I am not sure I can have 5VDC sitting on my radio mute most of the time prior to sensor activation. This means I will probably need to isolate this circuit with a 5VDC relay that, in turn, drags my radio mute to ground from an open state. Is this the way others have approached this?

For the control wire, it is opposite. The control wire sits at 0VDC UNTIL activation and then puts out 5VDC. I want use this 5VDC to drive a relay that cuts out my rear brake lights for the duration of activation that I have set (7 seconds). In case I get hit from the rear, I don't want the LEO to see my brake lights come on.

I just wanted to validate this approach with others and see what others have done.

Thanks!

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DO NOT KILL YOUR BREAK LIGHTS! You will risk a serious accident doing so. Imagine Driving 90MPH and having someone behind you and you slam on your brakes with no lights. You are not only putting yourself at risk for a serious accident but everyone else on the road. This is a bad idea.

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Originally Posted by BestRadarDetectors

DO NOT KILL YOUR BREAK LIGHTS! You will risk a serious accident doing so. Imagine Driving 90MPH and having someone behind you and you slam on your brakes with no lights. You are not only putting yourself at risk for a serious accident but everyone else on the road. This is a bad idea.

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I agree with BRD this is a really bad idea. This topic came up some months ago and I mentioned it to a lawyer pal of mine that deals with auto collisions all the time. He told me that if you had something like this installed on your car and you were in accident or caused one due to the that device you could be held criminally responsible and be completely screwed in a civil case.

Got it - good arguments.

What car are you installing this on? I know with the BMW "telematics mute" radio wire the ALP works fine without isolation. If you are concerned just throw a diode on the trigger wire - stripe side towards the ALP ground output. Much easier than a relay.

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Originally Posted by ApexOnYou

What car are you installing this on? I know with the BMW "telematics mute" radio wire the ALP works fine without isolation. If you are concerned just throw a diode on the trigger wire - stripe side towards the ALP ground output. Much easier than a relay.

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It is a 2002 Porsche 911 with the OEM Bose system. I like you idea about using a diode, seems much cleaner. Thank you.

If you don't have any on hand RadioShack should carry them, a "1N4001" diode would work fine.

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Originally Posted by ApexOnYou

If you don't have any on hand RadioShack should carry them, a "1N4001" diode would work fine.

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I dont see how a diode will do the trick ? i would like to understand how , not to confront your saying :thumb:

There is no relay alone that can be triggered by any of the wire green or blue.
None of those wires push enough amperage to run even the tinyest relay .

There is a way but dont know if you have access to advanced.

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Originally Posted by Tman

I dont see how a diode will do the trick ? i would like to understand how , not to confront your saying :thumb:

There is no relay alone that can be triggered by any of the wire green or blue.
None of those wires push enough amperage to run even the tinyest relay .

There is a way but dont know if you have access to advanced.

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Think of the diode as an electronic check valve - flow is only permitted one way. If the ALP mute wire is in fact outputting 5v at standby (I don't recall what mine was doing) and ground when triggered a diode will block the 5v from reaching the radio circuit while still allowing the circuit to ground on activation. There's probably a better explanation of this on www.the12volt.com

You can most certainly trigger relays from the ALP outputs though. You only need a few mA of current for a positive trigger and a ground for a negative trigger relay setup. Not saying OP should or shouldn't interfere with the cars brake circuit, just clarifying on the relay topic.

Apex , i went this road , i got the final answer from Alp :

'' sorry, relays are not yet supported. We constantly work on new updates and functionality extensions, as you probably are aware of. Stay tuned for our newsletters, latest news are usually updated monthly.

Have a great day!
Your ALPriority Support team
--
AL Sales - Croatia
Radikal d.o.o. - J. Mise 8, HR - 10360 Sesvete
Mob: +385 91 446 6657
E-mail: info@alpriority.com
Web: www.alg9.com, www.alpriority.com ''

This is not to say a kill is un-doable , but definitively not by triggering a relay using signal from blue\green wire.
I tried with a micro relay rated 3 volts ...not enough push .

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Originally Posted by ApexOnYou

Think of the diode as an electronic check valve - flow is only permitted one way. If the ALP mute wire is in fact outputting 5v at standby (I don't recall what mine was doing) and ground when triggered a diode will block the 5v from reaching the radio circuit while still allowing the circuit to ground on activation. There's probably a better explanation of this on www.the12volt.com

You can most certainly trigger relays from the ALP outputs though. You only need a few mA of current for a positive trigger and a ground for a negative trigger relay setup. Not saying OP should or shouldn't interfere with the cars brake circuit, just clarifying on the relay topic.

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Did they ever give a reason as to why? I can't think of any logical reason as to why relays would not work in a negative trigger setup. I can see why positive would not work with a typical automotive relay since they need 12v. I guarantee the mute output will work with a relay just off the principle of it being grounded properly enough to trigger a radio's negative mute trigger. I would diode isolate the 85 terminal on the relay just because I don't where the 5v standby voltage is coming from in the ALP (some relays have internal diodes for this btw).

:edit: What is the ALP "fog" wire doing during standby and activation? I'm assuming 12v on and either ground or 5v off? If so that should work for a positive relay trigger. Just trying to figure this out since their response doesn't make sense to me.

For the simple reason their system is made to deliver very small signal , 5 volts , but with very very very low amperage.

If you know about Arduino , then you can use the green\blue wire.

Alp is not like the Laser interceptor that triggers a ground contact upon alert.

It will trigger a relay if you use the mute output to trigger a relay. You would do this by connecting terminal 86 of the relay (coil +) to ignition 12v and terminal 85 (coil -) to the ALP mute output with a diode for the reason in my last post. You can still use that same output for radio mute, you would just run a second wire to the radio mute with a diode.

So:
12v ignition -> relay terminal 86
ALP mute -> relay terminal 85

This will operate a relay, this is called a negative trigger. The relay coil is being triggered when the ALP provides ground.

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Originally Posted by Tman

For the simple reason their system is made to deliver very small signal , 5 volts , but with very very very low amperage.

If you know about Arduino , then you can use the green\blue wire.

Alp is not like the Laser interceptor that triggers a ground contact upon alert.

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In that case,there are "Solid State" relays that operate on lower voltages & current requirements.

tried and tested but both the LI and ALp with an auto motive relay the mute wires are not a solid ground so it will not trigger a a normal relay
I got this idea from another ozzie but try this one

I have one activating a number plater IR strip on alert ..also I need to install a few more to kill my amps on alert as my radio doesn't have a mute wire as it has Bluetooth shit

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/like/1810...=true&lpid=107

I've got relays operating on the +5V green wire, as discussed in the 'blue and green wire' thread if its of use ;

http://radarandlaserforum.com/showth...ll=1#post25378

Works well on ALP alert.

Edit : looks like you just beat me to the post Deano :)

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Originally Posted by RedRocket

In that case,there are "Solid State" relays that operate on lower voltages & current requirements.

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You are right RR , i tried this route ...but it does not work , the alp does not supply enough juice to trigger it ,
and the relay is quoted to trigger @ 3 volts.

As i explained before , the Alp works on tiny voltage , the only route that works is Arduino , i did it this way
and it works. It took me a month to find the solution.

Apex , i pray that you try your route and see by yourself .

'' This will operate a relay, this is called a negative trigger. The relay coil is being triggered when the ALP provides ground. ''

The explanation is that Alp does not provide ground : the blue\green provides + - in stanby mode ,
then upon alert the polarity is reversed - + , that is why the Team says the relay is not supported.

My ALP'd car is down waiting for insurance to get their act together but I will play around with this later in the week. I did not know that it wasn't providing a solid ground, I understand your point now. I will report back with the actual impedance to ground. Either way it sounds like there is a solution for triggering other circuits should anyone desire so I'm more or less just curious of what the unit is actually doing now.

Well as it's a DC power sys. source,"Impedance" isn't the issue & checking for that won't tell you much.In your situation,actual "resistance" is the cause from poor bonding between the common ground connections is.

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Originally Posted by RedRocket

Well as it's a DC power sys. source,"Impedance" isn't the issue & checking for that won't tell you much.In your situation,actual "resistance" is the cause from poor bonding between the common ground connections is.

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The radio mute wire an be used with a relay if needed. I have been getting too busy that I really cant keep up with every thread and I have missed viewing several threads. If someone has a particular issue please PM me and I will help.

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Originally Posted by RedRocket

Well as it's a DC power sys. source,"Impedance" isn't the issue & checking for that won't tell you much.In your situation,actual "resistance" is the cause from poor bonding between the common ground connections is.

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Correct. I used the wrong terminology in my post but if you caught that then you know what I meant. I will post resistance to ground measurements tomorrow.

For those curious of what the unit is doing:

Off:
Green: 16.3kΩ / 0v
Blue: 1mΩ / 0v

Standby:
Green: 105kΩ / 0.11v
Blue: OL / 4.67v

Alert:
Green: OL / 5.13v
Blue: 105kΩ / 0.11v

No change on any of the outputs when I did a short press of menu for "fog light" activation. I assumed one of them would be switching 5v? I was hoping to power my radar detectors off of this eventually.

But you can run relays off of either one using a few different methods. I am curious to see what BRD has been doing for this but for the time being my solution would be a 5v relay with a "relay driver" to buffer the circuit (without knowing what the ALP ouput can handle). You could also do something with a transistor switching a 12v circuit but I would just be copying off google since I haven't built one of those yet.

Apex , get this and you wiill be fine ,it works on 12 volts :

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-1-Channe...item33852bc2d3

The 5v version of that should work. I'm not running anything off a relay, I was just curious to learn what the unit is doing and thought I'd share my findings.

My ver2 hardware bought in May/15
Using ApexOnYou Post #22 as a reference
Standby:
Green: 0v
Blue: 4.65v

Alert: (3sec LID)
Green:0v
Blue: 0v

15 sec after Alert! (great for a radio mute)
Standby:
Green: 0v
Blue: 4.65v
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yivl...ature=youtu.be

Conclusions:
1. Blue radio mute wire gave a signal when it saw an alert, green did not
2. Blue wire signal lasted 15sec
3. Problem Definition: Why did Green wire do nothing, yet my manual says "Green relay wire in the Rev2 ALP control box can be connected to the coil of an automotive relay which is then pulled to the +12v car battery. By using this relay it is possible to switch off/on other vehicle circuits during an alert from ALP. The relay wire pulls to the ground when active the same as the mute wire."
4. Diff topic, my 3sec alert keeps saying "...interference detection ONLY"...yet my 4sec LID timeout gives a nice machine gun sound, of course I am in blue mode.

Relay wire is a Ground not a positive trigger, Its used only to trip a relay for external options. For example some dealers install seat vibrators when alerts go off to get drivers attention.

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Originally Posted by BestRadarDetectors

For example some dealers install seat vibrators when alerts go off to get drivers attention.

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Careful w/ that recommendation...we don't want women getting out-of-control & causing an orgasmic accident ! :whoo:

That would be interesting press article : '' i save my mariage thanks to laser alerts '' !

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Originally Posted by RedRocket

Careful w/ that recommendation...we don't want women getting out-of-control & causing an orgasmic accident ! :whoo:

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Why not?

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Originally Posted by PAPACUCU

Why not?

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...b/c it might stain the car seat ? :playful:

I take it the outputs have been revised on V2 to allow direct connection (negative trigger) with a standard 12v relay?

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Originally Posted by ApexOnYou

I take it the outputs have been revised on V2 to allow direct connection (negative trigger) with a standard 12v relay?

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Please note the following wiring for using the Relay switch on V2 CPU's. Do not try this on the original V1 CPU's.
Attachment 4345

We discussed this before ;

http://radarandlaserforum.com/showth...ll=1#post25378

The relay I have is switched by +5V TTL logic on the green wire, and draws no more than 20 mA. Works fine on a V1 CPU, although the external load I'm driving is small

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Originally Posted by BestRadarDetectors

Please note the following wiring for using the Relay switch on V2 CPU's. Do not try this on the original V1 CPU's.
Attachment 4345

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Update: Midex relay is unavailable. Digi-Key has suggested this relay PB682-ND

WARNING #2
If you forgot the stand alone diode you will MELT/FRY/BLOW your CPU. Or worse if you purchase the diode and install it backward you will fry your CPU ver2. And finally if your solder breaks on your correctly installed diode mths/years later you will fry you CPU....
Bottom line for me I am using the blue wire. Good riddance to the green wire for now. Hopefully down the road ALP makes the green wire simpler/more robust to use.
Attachment 4419

or you purchase one of these

i have tried and tested this unit to switch things on and off on allert they work a treat

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Band-New-...item33a3f0cdf7

deano,
yes that is what I will be doing on the BLUE wire (radio mute).
Here is a Hong Kong vendor with nice chart at the bottom of the ad explaining all the connections.
I like this one better because it has screw terminals for the wires too.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/400786093705
Tman has found the china version 1/2 the price of the Hong Kong version, maybe the Hong Kong ships faster...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-DC-5V-D...item51cde3025f
I ordered both !:highly_amused:

deano,
on further reflection, your version has nice indicator lights....red & blue for power and switching probably.
Question, where do I get those three veritcal post PIN connectors (female) for incoming power....?

deano, yours does NOT include a timer, so I am back to Tman and my version.

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Originally Posted by Redmoto

deano,
yes that is what I will be doing on the BLUE wire (radio mute).
Here is a Hong Kong vendor with nice chart at the bottom of the ad explaining all the connections.
I like this one better because it has screw terminals for the wires too.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/400786093705
Tman has found the china version 1/2 the price of the Hong Kong version, maybe the Hong Kong ships faster...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-DC-5V-D...item51cde3025f
I ordered both !:highly_amused:

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sorry mate the relay i was meaning to show also has screw connectors i just used the first picture i came across on ebay

mine dont have a timer the ALP cpu is the timer or the kill switch on the ALP,,,

here is a picture to give some scale on there size

http://i1149.photobucket.com/albums/...psyuynpr6a.jpg