HiFi Control Set Pad Doesn't Like The Heat

[awj223]

Interesting thing I've been noticing with my HiFi Control Set: it doesn't like the heat. I mounted it on my instrument panel bezel, just underneath the instrument panel. The bezel is black and the HiFi Control Set control pad is also black. It becomes very hot if the Sun strikes it directly and the car is closed and it's warm outside. When this happens I notice that the LED on the control pad does not illuminate. The external LED lights up green, like normal, but then the external LED flashes red and stops flashing. It does not ever turn blue, even after I cool off the control pad and press POWER.

This first happened to me last weekend when I parked in the Sun; even after the control pad cooled off, it would not boot. It didn't boot until I killed power to the ALP entirely and then reapplied power (by turning the key to the OFF position and back to ON) with the control pad cooled down. It happened again today.

I never saw this issue with the standard control set pad through last summer. Is there some thermal protection circuitry in the HiFi Control Set pad that's activating now that it's getting warmer outside?

[Tman]

I would change the location , a lower one ...or add a little shade\mini-palapa :friendly_wink:

[awj223]

I would change the location , a lower one ...or add a little shade\mini-palapa :friendly_wink:

I can easily be more diligent about putting up the sunshade, or move the control down so it is never in direct sunlight. I'm just wondering if anyone else has been seeing this same issue.

If I see this happen again, I'll use my infrared thermometer to see how hot the thing is getting.

[BestRadarDetectors]

I can easily be more diligent about putting up the sunshade, or move the control down so it is never in direct sunlight. I'm just wondering if anyone else has been seeing this same issue.

If I see this happen again, I'll use my infrared thermometer to see how hot the thing is getting.
I would be interested in knowing exactly how hot your control module has to get before it fails and would be interested in sending another one to verify if it's with just your unit.

[RedRocket]

I'm just wondering if anyone else has been seeing this same issue.Nope.
Still pretty cool in the Northeast daytime & even cooler at night. Won't have Cali. temperatures till July. ;)

[awj223]

I would be interested in knowing exactly how hot your control module has to get before it fails and would be interested in sending another one to verify if it's with just your unit.

I will be on business travel from tomorrow until 4/29, but if you'd like to send me another one, I can test it. I already have an infrared thermometer that I keep in the car to measure the temperature of my brakes, and can easily use it to measure the temperature of the control pad.

[awj223]

I will be on business travel from tomorrow until 4/29, but if you'd like to send me another one, I can test it. I already have an infrared thermometer that I keep in the car to measure the temperature of my brakes, and can easily use it to measure the temperature of the control pad.

Update: I parked the car at The Shops at Tanforan, right before going to the airport. The seabreeze was howling though, and the temperature outside of the car was in the mid 60s. Inside the car it only got up to about 95-105°F. Measured the temperature of the control pad and it was 125°F. It did not experience the issue. If I had to guess, I'd say that the temperature of the control pad is between 150-175°F when this issue occurs.

BRD: I think you'd be able to test this by putting a control pad in the Sun on a black surface, and covering it with a transparent plastic or glass lid to simulate being in a car. I also sent you a PM.

[ApexOnYou]

I may be experiencing the same issue right now. My control set is mounted in a compartment with a lid which I've been leaving open lately. I just got in my car and upon startup the ALP shut down halfway through the word "defense". The control set is warm but nowhere near hot, it's 52* outside and the interior surfaces are maybe 80*F, if that. Tried rebooting it five times and it only worked once, the other attempts resulted in shut down. Never had this issue with the standard control set which I ran in the same location last summer (it easily saw 100*F surface temps).

I have a video of what's going on if it is of any use; I'm on my phone right now but I could upload it tonight.

[BestRadarDetectors]

I may be experiencing the same issue right now. My control set is mounted in a compartment with a lid which I've been leaving open lately. I just got in my car and upon startup the ALP shut down halfway through the word "defense". The control set is warm but nowhere near hot, it's 52* outside and the interior surfaces are maybe 80*F, if that. Tried rebooting it five times and it only worked once, the other attempts resulted in shut down. Never had this issue with the standard control set which I ran in the same location last summer (it easily saw 100*F surface temps).

I have a video of what's going on if it is of any use; I'm on my phone right now but I could upload it tonight.

Are you on the current 5.1.1 firmware?

[awj223]

I may be experiencing the same issue right now. My control set is mounted in a compartment with a lid which I've been leaving open lately. I just got in my car and upon startup the ALP shut down halfway through the word "defense". The control set is warm but nowhere near hot, it's 52* outside and the interior surfaces are maybe 80*F, if that. Tried rebooting it five times and it only worked once, the other attempts resulted in shut down. Never had this issue with the standard control set which I ran in the same location last summer (it easily saw 100*F surface temps).

I have a video of what's going on if it is of any use; I'm on my phone right now but I could upload it tonight.

Mine doesn't even get that far. The external LED turns on (green), then switches off. The control set LED never lights up at all. If I try to force the ALP to turn back on (by holding down the POWER button), both LEDs flash red the way they do when it is manually powered down. Only after power is completely removed (by turning the key to the OFF position) and the control set cools down will the ALP boot properly.

[ApexOnYou]

Are you on the current 5.1.1 firmware?

No sir, 4.5.4. Forgot to write my SN down while my dash was torn apart so I haven't updated yet.


Mine doesn't even get that far. The external LED turns on (green), then switches off. The control set LED never lights up at all. If I try to force the ALP to turn back on (by holding down the POWER button), both LEDs flash red the way they do when it is manually powered down. Only after power is completely removed (by turning the key to the OFF position) and the control set cools down will the ALP boot properly.

I got mine rebooted and drove 3-4 minutes before realizing I might not catch it shutting down if it happens during the day (when the LED is less obvious) so I decided to change the setting to constant. I got into the menu and as I was almost done the unit shut down again. Hasn't done it since booting it back up but now I'm paranoid!

[BestRadarDetectors]

No sir, 4.5.4. Forgot to write my SN down while my dash was torn apart so I haven't updated yet.

I got mine rebooted and drove 3-4 minutes before realizing I might not catch it shutting down if it happens during the day (when the LED is less obvious) so I decided to change the setting to constant. I got into the menu and as I was almost done the unit shut down again. Hasn't done it since booting it back up but now I'm paranoid!

Try the new firmware. There were changes done to the firmware to help prevent some of these issues.

[ApexOnYou]

I will give that a try when I get a chance to get to my serial number.

Heres a (horrible quality) video showing what mine was doing. It starts acting up around 0:24.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITsTkm7BsZM

[awj223]

I will give that a try when I get a chance to get to my serial number.

Heres a (horrible quality) video showing what mine was doing. It starts acting up around 0:24.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITsTkm7BsZM
How were you trying to turn it on and off in the video? With a kill switch, or by pressing POWER?

If you try pressing POWER and all you get is the LEDs flashing red as the system turns itself back off, you are likely seeing the same issue I am.

[BestRadarDetectors]

I will give that a try when I get a chance to get to my serial number.

Heres a (horrible quality) video showing what mine was doing. It starts acting up around 0:24.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITsTkm7BsZM

Do you have a USB Stick left in the USB Port? Is the car running with +12v or more?

[radargeek]

Do you have a USB Stick left in the USB Port? Is the car running with +12v or more?X2... check the car's voltage, also check to make sure the power and ground connections to the ALP are solid.

It's likely that the HiFi control set draws more current than the regular one, so a bad ground is more likely to cause an issue with HiFi than without.

[ApexOnYou]

How were you trying to turn it on and off in the video? With a kill switch, or by pressing POWER?
If you try pressing POWER and all you get is the LEDs flashing red as the system turns itself back off, you are likely seeing the same issue I am.

I don't have a kill switch installed, this was powering on and off from the control set. What you are describing sounds like what mine did when I had all of the sensors disconnected.


Do you have a USB Stick left in the USB Port? Is the car running with +12v or more?


X2... check the car's voltage, also check to make sure the power and ground connections to the ALP are solid.

It's likely that the HiFi control set draws more current than the regular one, so a bad ground is more likely to cause an issue with HiFi than without.

No USB stick in the USB port and 13.8v at idle. The behavior that I saw was not indicative of a loose connection. I'm really picky about how connections are made, they'd probably survive Armageddon.

Got tagged with laser today and the ALP had a gun ID glitch so I will be updating tonight for sure.

[awj223]

I would be interested in knowing exactly how hot your control module has to get before it fails and would be interested in sending another one to verify if it's with just your unit.

The answers are here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCnix00YqMQ

[BestRadarDetectors]

The answers are here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCnix00YqMQ

Damn... That's pretty hot.

The Specifications on the ALP are listed at:
Working temperature: -20°C to +60°C (-4°F to 140°F)

So you seem to be right on the money with having it roughly at 140°F in your video. I am not sure if they can bring the tolerance any higher but might be best to move the controller to a location out of the direct sun for now.

[awj223]

Damn... That's pretty hot.

The Specifications on the ALP are listed at:
Working temperature: -20°C to +60°C (-4°F to 140°F)

So you seem to be right on the money with having it roughly at 140°F in your video. I am not sure if they can bring the tolerance any higher but might be best to move the controller to a location out of the direct sun for now.

I will use a sunshade at all times from now on. It's better for my dash to not be in the direct sunlight anyway...just a couple times that I got lazy and didn't put one up and the ALP didn't start when I got back to my car.

The thing is, it wasn't even that hot outside yesterday. It was maybe 75-80F at most, but of course the interior of my car can get a lot hotter than that even when it's not too hot outside.

Out of curiosity, what are the specs on the standard (non hifi) control set control pad? I'm sure that thing got much hotter last summer on days when it was 100F+ outside...

[tawwwd]

Working temperature: -20°C to +60°C (-4°F to 140°F) is the rated working temp on almost ALL electronics. You would have to source some specialized parts (if they exist for what the control pad uses) to go colder/hotter.

[awj223]

Working temperature: -20°C to +60°C (-4°F to 140°F) is the rated working temp on almost ALL electronics. You would have to source some specialized parts (if they exist for what the control pad uses) to go colder/hotter.

I thought automotive is supposed to go higher...much higher.
http://www.aecouncil.com/Documents/AEC_Q100_Rev_H_Base_Document.pdf

The 4 grades for automotive electronics are on page 9 of the PDF, which is marked "page 3 of 42". This isn't something that's designed to be installed in the engine compartment, but even grade 3 goes up to 85°C or or 185°F.

I am concerned about what's going to happen if you're parked in Las Vegas or Phoenix during the summer. Even if the control set is installed in a shaded location, the interior temperature of a car can easily be 30°F warmer than the ambient temperature, and the ambient temperature in those areas can get up to 115-120°F.

[BestRadarDetectors]

I thought automotive is supposed to go higher...much higher.
http://www.aecouncil.com/Documents/AEC_Q100_Rev_H_Base_Document.pdf

The 4 grades for automotive electronics are on page 9 of the PDF, which is marked "page 3 of 42". This isn't something that's designed to be installed in the engine compartment, but even grade 3 goes up to 85°C or or 185°F.

I am concerned about what's going to happen if you're parked in Las Vegas or Phoenix during the summer. Even if the control set is installed in a shaded location, the interior temperature of a car can easily be 30°F warmer than the ambient temperature, and the ambient temperature in those areas can get up to 115-120°F.

To protect itself it will not turn on if its components are too hot. The HiFi Controller unlike the regular controller also has an amplifier in the small controller. There is a lot of parts in that small controller.

[tawwwd]

I thought automotive is supposed to go higher...much higher.
http://www.aecouncil.com/Documents/AEC_Q100_Rev_H_Base_Document.pdf

The 4 grades for automotive electronics are on page 9 of the PDF, which is marked "page 3 of 42". This isn't something that's designed to be installed in the engine compartment, but even grade 3 goes up to 85°C or or 185°F.

I am concerned about what's going to happen if you're parked in Las Vegas or Phoenix during the summer. Even if the control set is installed in a shaded location, the interior temperature of a car can easily be 30°F warmer than the ambient temperature, and the ambient temperature in those areas can get up to 115-120°F.

Its not an automotive part by any means. It would fall under commerical electronics and a lower rating.

For example - people with Iphone's in Canada or northern US can probably relate to this, once its colder than -15C outside the Iphone will shut itself off and say "temp too low to operate"

[awj223]

Its not an automotive part by any means. It would fall under commerical electronics and a lower rating.

For example - people with Iphone's in Canada or northern US can probably relate to this, once its colder than -15C outside the Iphone will shut itself off and say "temp too low to operate"

Do car radios, car alarms, and other types of electronics designed to be installed in cars fall under the "automotive parts" category, or is that only for stuff that goes under the hood?

[radargeek]

Do car radios, car alarms, and other types of electronics designed to be installed in cars fall under the "automotive parts" category, or is that only for stuff that goes under the hood?I don't think things like the radio have to be automotive rated like the components under the hood, but they should still be designed to withstand the environmental extremes that occur in the car's cabin. After all, you wouldn't want your radio to not work when the cabin is too hot or too cold, right?

Since the ALP is designed for use in a car, and the major components are generally installed in the cabin, they should be rated similarly to other car cabin electronics. RDs too. The V1 for example is designed to operate from -20˚C to +70˚C.

[tawwwd]

Do car radios, car alarms, and other types of electronics designed to be installed in cars fall under the "automotive parts" category, or is that only for stuff that goes under the hood?

No. Auto parts would be OEM electronics.

Car alarms etc just because they have the word car in it doesnt make it an automotive electronic. Its no different then a dvd player or a cell phone would be made.

[adam]

Mine doesn't even get that far. The external LED turns on (green), then switches off. The control set LED never lights up at all. If I try to force the ALP to turn back on (by holding down the POWER button), both LEDs flash red the way they do when it is manually powered down. Only after power is completely removed (by turning the key to the OFF position) and the control set cools down will the ALP boot properly.

This exact same thing is starting to happen with me. Very frustrating. I live in North Alberta where our "hot" days are like 25-30C (77-85) and the first time this happened I didnt even realize it until I passed under a dragoneye trap in Edmonton.


https://youtu.be/Fj7Xg7ILJ0c

[awj223]

Keep it out of direct sunlight and it'll be fine most of the time. Mine's been fine since I started using the sunshade, although I haven't had a chance to see what happens if it's 35-40°C outside, because California has been stuck in a cool weather pattern for the last 3 weeks or so.

[BestRadarDetectors]

If anyone experiences this issue with the HiFi Module please let me know. Those that already informed me I have already packaged replacements which are shipping tomorrow.

[BestRadarDetectors]

This exact same thing is starting to happen with me. Very frustrating. I live in North Alberta where our "hot" days are like 25-30C (77-85) and the first time this happened I didnt even realize it until I passed under a dragoneye trap in Edmonton.


https://youtu.be/Fj7Xg7ILJ0c

Contact Alex at KMPH for a replacement controller.

[hussein]

I am having a similar problem. I have the HiFi controller. When my car is parked from morning to afternoon for 6-8 hours and I return, my ALP does not turn on. Since I have silent power-up enabled I do not notice it until I start driving and am not sure if I press the on button as soon as I get in the vehicle if it will turn on without any issues. I will see tomorrow.

[BestRadarDetectors]

I am having a similar problem. I have the HiFi controller. When my car is parked from morning to afternoon for 6-8 hours and I return, my ALP does not turn on. Since I have silent power-up enabled I do not notice it until I start driving and am not sure if I press the on button as soon as I get in the vehicle if it will turn on without any issues. I will see tomorrow.
Send me a PM with your order information.

[awj223]

Any recommendations on window tint? In addition to getting a new ALP controller with higher heat tolerance, I am thinking about tinting my windows for better heat rejection. This should prevent the interior of the car from getting so hot when it's sitting in the sun.

[BestRadarDetectors]

Any recommendations on window tint? In addition to getting a new ALP controller with higher heat tolerance, I am thinking about tinting my windows for better heat rejection. This should prevent the interior of the car from getting so hot when it's sitting in the sun.

You should not need tint to make your ALP work. Tint will block sun and keep your interior cooler so it does have benefits but we should never require anyone to tint their windows to use our product. This issue has been resolved and all users that had an issue have new controllers on the way.

[adam]

Alex is sending me a new unit, all is good :)

[awj223]

I would like to tell the folks at AL that they did a great job on the new controller. I deliberately left the sunshade down in my car just now. Ambient temperature outside is around 75F/24C, and the control set was in the Sun in the car with the windows closed and I measured a temperature of 160F/71C with my infrared thermometer. ALP started up without any problems. Given the new temperature tolerances, I think I should be fine even if it's 120 degrees outside, and the problem in that case would be tolerating the heat when I touch the steering wheel if I don't have a sunshade up.

[BestRadarDetectors]

I would like to tell the folks at AL that they did a great job on the new controller. I deliberately left the sunshade down in my car just now. Ambient temperature outside is around 75F/24C, and the control set was in the Sun in the car with the windows closed and I measured a temperature of 160F/71C with my infrared thermometer. ALP started up without any problems. Given the new temperature tolerances, I think I should be fine even if it's 120 degrees outside, and the problem in that case would be tolerating the heat when I touch the steering wheel if I don't have a sunshade up.
We tested to 200 degrees so I do not anticipate any more concerns with this issue.