RALETC Official Results of Veil G5 - Testing - Part 2

[Mirage]

After waiting for almost two months to test Veil G5 we were finally able to test on a vehicle. No we didn't go crazy and test it on a white F-450, but we did use my Camaro ZL1 as we already knew how it performs in the real world and knew it to be a bit stealthy by itself. In the test we used a Truspeed Sxb and a DragonEye Speed Lidar AND both of these guns are less than six months old. We provided each gun with a fresh set of batteries on the morning of the test. As we told you we wanted to show you from the officers perspective exactly what he might see if Veil G5 was on a vehicle and determine if Veil G5 was able to defeat today's current lidar guns.

Our baseline was established against the unveiled ZL1 both on the incoming and outgoing side as we wanted to demonstrate the "stealthy" nature of the car. The test course is approximately 2400 ft and has a side street at approximately 2100 ft. The Truspeed Sxb has a maximum distance of 2000 ft so we knew we would be on the edge of it's capabilities. On the rear of the vehicle we were able to get a 1986 ft baseline very close to the limit of the TSSxb, but on the front of the vehicle the best we could get was 1729 ft. This alone proves the Camaro as a good candidate for a fair test of G5 as it would represent the best case scenario with respect to reflectivity. Keep in mind though we are running the guns tripod mounted and that makes it very difficult for a jammer or stealth coating to perform optimially as the movements of the operator in non tripod mounted cases can sometimes prevent a speed reading by themselves thereby improving results. Regardless this approach is the same approach used when we test jammers, and if the product performs well under these conditions it will certainly perform well in real world conditions.

It has been said that only a small amount of Veil was required to get good performance so we set out to first apply a single coat of G5 to the head lights and fog lights of the ZL1. This is case 1 and is demonstrated in runs 1 and 2. In this case, we masked off the turn signal indicators, the chrome outlined Chevrolet logo, and the ZL1 badge and then applied G5 over the top of the painters tape to ensure we reduced as much of the reflections from these parts as we possibly could. The application of G5 to the head light was very smooth and looked really nice on the vehicle. After running this for a day it doesn't appear to have reduced the intensity of the head lights at all.

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In runs 3 and 4 we went back and applied painters tape to ALL flat portions of the front of the vehicle and then coated the tape with Veil G5. The vehicle looked like one of those prototype testing vehicles you see the spy shots of from Car and Driver. The purpose was to reduce as much of the reflections from these parts as possible to ensure at distance we were not getting reflections from other parts of the vehicle. We also encountered some odd results in runs 1 & 2 and wanted to see if the problem persisted in the fully veiled vehicle.



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We did do a box opening video and showed the unopened container of Veil G5, the 2 foam brushes that came with it, and the instructions. I'm sure at this point you don't want to see us shake the Veil G5 can, or read the instruction on video so at this point we will just give you the results and let you be the judge.



(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFCLOPhEUIw)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFCLOPhEUIw



Discussion

Couple of things to note:

The TSSxb was producing 0 mile per hour readings in excess of 1500 ft. I would have to conclude that Veil was causing this because we did not get these during the baseline runs.
The DragonEye did not report zero MPH, but it also did not report anything during the test when the distance was above 1700 ft. The DESL performed much better than the TSSxb, but this gun is also rated at 6000 ft.
Veil G5 does appear to work, but not at common enforceable distances (i.e. sub 1000 ft). This may also be due to the guns being used as they are extremely new purchased within the last 6 months. In tests run by Veil Guy the guns used were a Stalker LZ1, Ultralyte LRB, and other older guns. It's quite possible that these guns do not have the caliber of optics that these newer guns have.


Regardless, you can see the results for yourself and come to your own conclusions. If you have any questions about the tests please let me know....

Thanks,

Mirage




Run
Distance
Diff
Comment


Baseline
1729.9

BASELINE Front


1
1326
403.9
Veil G5 on Head Lights and Fog Lights ONLY (Plus Logo, Badge, and Turn Signals)


2
1591.5
138.4
Veil G5 on Head Lights and Fog Lights ONLY (Plus Logo, Badge, and Turn Signals)


3
1238.9
491
Veil G5 on Bumpers and Head Lights


4
1662
67.9
DragonEye Speed Lidar Run - G5 on Bumper and Head lights




So with a single coat of Veil on the head lights and fog lights anything less than 1300 ft was IPT on the TSSxb. On the full coverage runs anything under 1200 ft was IPT on the TSSxb
Veil G5 had little to no effect on the DragonEye Speed Lidar.

[awj223]

When you did the baseline run, was it tape on + no Veil, or was it no tape + no Veil? The baseline run wasn't shown in the video, so I can't tell. Your description seems to suggest it was no tape and no Veil (and if this is the case, how do you know whether the tape or the Veil was causing the slightly reduced PT distance?).

[Mirage]

When you did the baseline run, was it tape on + no Veil, or was it no tape + no Veil? The baseline run wasn't shown in the video, so I can't tell. Your description seems to suggest it was no tape and no Veil (and if this is the case, how do you know whether the tape or the Veil was causing the slightly reduced PT distance?).

Baseline run was done without tape and no Veil. The first two passes were done with very little tape only covering the Logo, Badge and turn signals. I can only assume it was the Veil reducing the distance as the first two runs were mostly a result of Veil on the head lights and fog lights. This should be easy enough to replicate with tape only.

[awj223]

This should be easy enough to replicate with tape only.

That would be a very interesting test to see, as it could establish a new baseline (or not).

[V1Jockey]

I noticed that the parking sensors were not covered. When these are in passive, or off mode only, do they not act a reflectors themselves? I've read this can be the case, but have not seen any tests to prove it.
Thanks for the great testing work.

[The Only Sarge]

So basically you found anything under a quarter of a mile was IPT with the TruSpeedS. This with Veil/Tape/slathered in Veil G5. Nobody would do this in the real world.
A quarter of a mile?
And with the Dragon Eye it was IPT. At over a quarter of a mile.
That is no benefit at all. None.
This from the Veil Website....Speaking specifically about the DE......
Some of the newer laser guns that are employing variable and random pulse rates are:
Digital Alley/Laser Alley SpeedLidar
DragonEye Technology SpeedLidar
DragonEye Compact
Stalker XLR
LTI TruSpeed SX & SXR, TruCAM
In an increasing number of states and countries, laser jammers are being outlawed. It is our understanding that in Texas, for example, if you are caught with one, it is considered a misdemeanor — an “offense” that is more serious than a summary traffic violation. So there is an increasing risk versus reward for their use in such regions.
As touched upon earlier, what makes it even more dicey is the fact that laser jammers are more producing jam codes on a more regular basis. Jammer manufacturers have not been very successful at remedying this. What that means is that even if you shut them off, the officer will already know you were using them.
Fortunately, since Veil G5 works on a principle entirely different than that of active laser jamming, it doesn’t produce jam codes. To the officer, it will simply appear that your vehicle is more difficult to target — something which actually can occur normally anyway as each vehicle has different amounts of reflectivity. As a result, you should be much less conspicuous.
Couple of issues here. One.....it obviously had ZERO effect on DE. Secondly in Texas any device or effort to defeat speed enforcement is illegal. Not just jammers. So G5 is illegal in Texas also. Plate covers are illegal in Texas. Jammers are illegal in Texas. Any device or effort to defeat.......
Mute point anyway......doesnt work as advertised.

[Mirage]

So basically you found anything under a quarter of a mile was IPT with the TruSpeedS. This with Veil/Tape/slathered in Veil G5. Nobody would do this in the real world.
A quarter of a mile?
And with the Dragon Eye it was IPT. At over a quarter of a mile.
That is no benefit at all. None.


Sarge as always straight to the point!

[The Only Sarge]

Well I added to it while you were responding.
Heres where I am going to get my Saks5thAvenue panties all bunched up........
It is publicly advertised G5 will all but STG (Stealth To Gun) all the newer guns. This is well documented. Dragon Slayer if I recall.
You basically bathed your poor ol Camaro (you will burn in hell for a bit over that) in G5 and it didnt do squat to the DE.
TruSpeedS IPT @ a quarter of a mile. Seriously?
This debate is over. There is no debate. Not about believers and non-believers.
You may as well pee all over the front of your car and pray.......

[The Only Sarge]

I noticed that the parking sensors were not covered. When these are in passive, or off mode only, do they not act a reflectors themselves? I've read this can be the case, but have not seen any tests to prove it.
Thanks for the great testing work.
Hey V1J........Yeah I agree any reflective area......but would you also agree with the entire car bathed in G5 a square inch or two at over a quarter of a mile isnt going to make spit in the ocean bit of difference.

[The Only Sarge]

Here it is...I thought I recalled a brag or two about killing the DE with G5......

"To be fair to the other jammer companies" others meaning the ones that can't do anything with the compact? Now it looks like even veil does something.


Indeed it does. After all of the tests that have been conducted over the years, it was nice to finally test them on two vehicles that really can show the potential of Veil against the latest variable and random pulse lasers. If you want to see how Veil did on a "lousy" car you need not look any further than the last couple of RALETC events. You can see Veil (even G4) on a subaru amdy my big silver metallic bmw (now that is a tough car to cloak).

Even with the Vette's good laser profile, shoot an unprotected headlight and readings can be gotten at thousands of feet. This course wall limited at about 1300-1400. But at RALETC's it goes past 4000!

Very happy with the outcome with both my black C7 but even Ted's red one. Good day for Veil and our community because we now have additional options against these new guns as well as IR photo enforcement, which is something that is really being overlooked by our community. Now a driver can use Veil G5 without a need for a radar detector. In fact, every driver can not benefit from Veil which means our potential customer base just increased my several orders of magnitude world-wide. Great day for us and I really couldn't be happier.

My hat's off to Roy for his willingness to actually test the claims we have been making with G4 (and now G5).

Look forward to real thorough testing from the senior members of our community on all of these fronts. Veil only, Jammer Only, Veil + Jammer Combination on a host of vehicles and colors.

Look forward to seeing some of your guys later tonight.

Take care.

Bob, aka Veil Guy, aka The Dragon Slayer

[The Only Sarge]

So Mirage....how can a rational thinking person reach any conclusions how your test results were so vastly different from Radar Roy?

[awj223]

Couple of issues here. One.....it obviously had ZERO effect on DE. Secondly in Texas any device or effort to defeat speed enforcement is illegal. Not just jammers. So G5 is illegal in Texas also. Plate covers are illegal in Texas. Jammers are illegal in Texas. Any device or effort to defeat.......
Pretty sure that doesn't include passive methods though. RDs are still legal in TX. But...



Mute point anyway......doesnt work as advertised.
Yep.

[The Only Sarge]

Pretty sure that doesn't include passive methods though.......
RDs are still legal in TX. But...
RD's dont defeat speed enforcement efforts. RD's only alert to them. Big fight over the language there from Truckers and they won. Then Lt Gov Dewhurst wanted to ban RD's also but the Truckers stomped that out. Again....any effort to defeat


Yep.
Yep.

[Mirage]

So Mirage....how can a rational thinking person reach any conclusions how your test results were so vastly different from Radar Roy?

You have to remember we now have 2 tests (One from me and one from Vortex) that contradict Roy's Veil test. Now a couple of things to consider, on the DragonEye compact Roy was hand holding whereas I had mine on a tripod. Like I said in the review if you test against the worst case scenario you will do much better in the real world. I do however think Vortex was performing his tests hand held so that being the case it sounds to me like he is just that much more stable than Roy's test. I also wish I could have done the DragonEye on the camera too. I was so pissed I brought the wrong camera and the battery was almost dead so I couldn't hook it up on the DESL. That DragonEye is deadly! ALP is the only one that can beat it.

[NYSpeederPVM]

I've never really thought much about veil, and the alps don't seem to need help, but I would still think it has some value when used with jammers. I never thought for a minute it would stand alone.

But there is no real way to test that, other than making a ton of runs with the same car and getting an average punch through distance with and without veil.

[juyer]

Again....any effort to defeat


hard to say, if you choose a black, low profile car instead of a big, white, is it effort to defeat lidar ? :-)

[The Only Sarge]

I've never really thought much about veil, and the alps don't seem to need help, but I would still think it has some value when used with jammers. I never thought for a minute it would stand alone.

But there is no real way to test that, other than making a ton of runs with the same car and getting an average punch through distance with and without veil.

I would agree a multi layered approach is sound thinking. Active and passive defense makes sense....however your passive has to actually work at real world distances we drivers face when being shot with laser. A quarter mile isn't realistic to expect any type of protection. I would further humbly submit just basic "reflection management" is just as effective. Angle your license plate down a bit. I use headlight armor on my headlights/fog lights and it significantly reduces reflection back.....just basic reflection management to cut down on my "footprint"......other than that it is beginning to appear a waste of money to utilize paint on laser "absorption". No realistic/realized gains in reducing your signature that I can see now after 2 test (Mirage/Vortex our resident non convicted felons)...
Oh yeah...I also use a active jammer. LI.....jams all the guns around here. Mirage is the only SOB in Texas with a DragonEye :)

[The Only Sarge]

You have to remember we now have 2 tests (One from me and one from Vortex) that contradict Roy's Veil test. Now a couple of things to consider, on the DragonEye compact Roy was hand holding whereas I had mine on a tripod. Like I said in the review if you test against the worst case scenario you will do much better in the real world. I do however think Vortex was performing his tests hand held so that being the case it sounds to me like he is just that much more stable than Roy's test. I also wish I could have done the DragonEye on the camera too. I was so pissed I brought the wrong camera and the battery was almost dead so I couldn't hook it up on the DESL. That DragonEye is deadly! ALP is the only one that can beat it.

I dont care if your testing mouse traps.....when you have 3 test done and 2 are almost identical results and one is waaaaayyyyyyy out of whack.
Throw the anomaly out. Something is wrong.
I look forward to BRD's test. I think he said the other day he can see sunlight now from his snow cave.

[Tman]

We still dont know what makes Veil ticking weakly but still ...is it absorbtive properties or reduction in reflectiveness ?

Would it be possible to test this ?

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[The Only Sarge]

There I just tested it and it works just as good:)
Seriously......I am now of the mind basic reflection management utilizing damn near any type of reflection management (I'll call that RM) will give you the same if not better results.
My preference is non intrusive solutions like headlight/fog light film (Smoked, Blue) that many dealers put on now to protect the HL area from yellowing/rock chips etc.
Angle your license plate down a tad or two.
Just basic reflection management.
Like my Longhorn Bulls Head I have on my Cadillac. I spray painted his eyeballs black as not to draw attention to myself.

Further more ...I would submit at the distance we are seeing to realize any type of benefit from RM.....your RD is gonna go off and give you about the same amount of time to slow down. I mean a quarter of a mile the beam has to be like 2 ft wide and hand held the LEO is gonna be all over the damn place trying to shoot you from that far away. That will set off a decent RD.

[Mirage]

There I just tested it and it works just as good:)
Seriously......I am now of the mind basic reflection management utilizing damn near any type of reflection management (I'll call that RM) will give you the same if not better results.
My preference is non intrusive solutions like headlight/fog light film (Smoked, Blue) that many dealers put on now to protect the HL area from yellowing/rock chips etc.
Angle your license plate down a tad or two.
Just basic reflection management.
Like my Longhorn Bulls Head I have on my Cadillac. I spray painted his eyeballs black as not to draw attention to myself.


LOL you've lost your damn mind! :smiley-laughing:

[The Only Sarge]

In the 60's.

[Tman]

Sarge just lacks reflection ...
LOL you've lost your damn mind! :smiley-laughing:

[The Only Sarge]

Sarge just lacks reflection ...

Let me reflect on that.

[awj223]

I dont care if your testing mouse traps.....when you have 3 test done and 2 are almost identical results and one is waaaaayyyyyyy out of whack.
Throw the anomaly out. Something is wrong.
I look forward to BRD's test. I think he said the other day he can see sunlight now from his snow cave.

When you have any number of tests done and one of them is RR's, just throw out RR's results. Regardless of whether they match the others or not.

[The Only Sarge]

I am curious what the body of members think is the direction to go here.
Do you/we spend our time pursuing A)cutting down reflectivity or B) continue the search for a product the absorbs IR.
Or is passive counter measures a waste of time? Are the benefits so small it is not worth it?

[curmudgeon]

IMHO, it's always a good thing to pursue effective passive CM's. But we shouldn't let wishful thinking cloud our perception of results.

[The Only Sarge]

Well said. Buyer beware.

[Veil Guy]

First I want to thank Mirage for making the effort and I am going to take the advice of some here not to get into any significant back and forth, contentious our otherwise.

With respect to the targeting, tripod mounts make it much harder on CMs used and is not representative of what happens in the real-world. I saw tripod mounting of police lasers more than 10 years ago when the lidar guns were huge and unwieldy. Hand holding as is done today should have an impact further reducing PTs that occur regardless of the guns used. I know that some of you are questioning Roy's results. I believe YC will have another shot at the same C7 that was tested with him doing the same hand-holding targeting. It would be most interesting to see the relative differences between Roy's ability versus YC's. I believe Mirage when he has the time will re-run these (I would hope without the tape, because it doesn't even look like it was coated consistently anyway) with the guns he has in his possession in a handheld fashion. I would expect to see improvements. As I expressed to Mirage when he shared his experiences, I was expecting better outcomes. I can only attribute this to tripod absolutely rock-steady setups. The other thing I would like to do is to get a better handle on his reflective profile. Seeing some improvement with the tape (even not fully and evenly painted), suggests to me that there are indeed other areas of the vehicle (beyond the lights) that are contributing to his PTs that these latest guns are capitalizing upon. It's also going to be interesting how its going to do against the LTI LRBs, TruSpeeds, older Stalkers, etc. I recall the PL4 we do quite well with too. All I am going to ask is to consider these other factors. If there is something unforeseen with G5 (over G4) which would be adversely impacting its performance over G4 (which I sincerely doubt), we'll address it and I anticipate Mirage's feedback to be helpful in that regard. We will continue to communicate with Mirage as we figure out the dynamics at play here. I was expecting much better, candidly, and so I am very interested in understanding why it didn't show better. One way or another, we'll figure that one out.

I have also asked Mirage to actually drive with G5 in the real-world and document his experiences on the road. This is what we're really interested in seeing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpxCJxvEExE

Cheers.

VG

[awj223]

With respect to the targeting, tripod mounts make it much harder on CMs used and is not representative of what happens in the real-world. I saw tripod mounting of police lasers more than 10 years ago when the lidar guns were huge and unwieldy. Hand holding as is done today should have an impact further reducing PTs that occur regardless of the guns used. I know that some of you are questioning Roy's results. I believe YC will have another shot at the same C7 that was tested with him doing the same hand-holding targeting. It would be most interesting to see the relative differences between Roy's ability versus YC's. I believe Mirage when he has the time will re-run these (I would hope without the tape, because it doesn't even look like it was coated consistently anyway) with the guns he has in his possession in a handheld fashion. I would expect to see improvements.

The problem with doing this handheld is though is that you can't be consistent in targeting from run to run, unless you have a tripod mount with motors that can mimic movement of the human hand and "replay" exactly the same movement from run to run, as well as a car that's guided by some system (perhaps magnets in the ground) that feeds its position and distance to the mount such that it targets the EXACT same place on the car at EXACTLY the same distance in multiple runs.

[Veil Guy]

The problem with doing this handheld is though is that you can't be consistent in targeting from run to run, unless you have a tripod mount with motors that can mimic movement of the human hand and "replay" exactly the same movement from run to run, as well as a car that's guided by some system (perhaps magnets in the ground) that feeds its position and distance to the mount such that it targets the EXACT same place on the car at EXACTLY the same distance in multiple runs.

Understood for conduction staged (and repeatable) runs. However that targeting it NOT representative of what's done in the real-world. I haven't seen tripod mounting for more than a decade. These latest guns are specifically designed to be hand-held. Like with any CM testing, they're performance will always tend to be better in the real-world. Those here can discount Veil's efficacy, but for those willing to actually use it in the real-world, these are the results I want to see. People don't get issued tickets on closed course testing.

We'll see if we can figure more out with Mirage and his setup and if we can improve in some way, we'll see what we can do. I am still looking forward to tests that are more representative of how lidar is used by LEOs, but with Veil alone and then with jammers on a variety of vehicles and against a variety of guns. That's going to take time though. But, I can be a patient guy.

VG

[Yellowcab]

LEOs rarely free hand when they shoot lidar. They may not be resting the LIDAR on a tripod, but they will rest the LIDAR on the window sill against the door jam, on top of the steering wheel or another stable platform. I would like to clarify that when we use a tripod for testing, LIDAR is not attached to the tripod. We use the tripod as a stable platform to rest the LIDAR upon.

To me the use of a tripod as an explaination of the performance of Veil in this test isn't valid.

We have used tripods in he past on vehicles equipped with Veil G4 and a laser jammer in the past with excellent performance results from the jammer/Veil G4 combination. Just look at the results from member Fox in the Hole from our last jammer meet.

[awj223]

LEOs rarely free hand when they shoot lidar. They may not be resting the LIDAR on a tripod, but they will rest the LIDAR on the window sill against the door jam, on top of the steering wheel or another stable platform. I would like to clarify that when we use a tripod for testing, LIDAR is not attached to the tripod. We use the tripod as a stable platform to rest the LIDAR upon.

Should have paid closer attention to the video. Looking at it again, it is apparent that the gun wasn't held steady in a tripod mount. I've found it difficult to ever lock onto anything farther than 300-500' away using the TSS handheld. The longest locks I've gotten (2100', which exceeds the advertised range of the gun) were when I was parked at a sort of "T" intersection aiming down the stem of the "T" with the driver's window open and the gun resting against the door.

[tawwwd]

Understood for conduction staged (and repeatable) runs. However that targeting it NOT representative of what's done in the real-world. I haven't seen tripod mounting for more than a decade. These latest guns are specifically designed to be hand-held. Like with any CM testing, they're performance will always tend to be better in the real-world. Those here can discount Veil's efficacy, but for those willing to actually use it in the real-world, these are the results I want to see. People don't get issued tickets on closed course testing.

We'll see if we can figure more out with Mirage and his setup and if we can improve in some way, we'll see what we can do. I am still looking forward to tests that are more representative of how lidar is used by LEOs, but with Veil alone and then with jammers on a variety of vehicles and against a variety of guns. That's going to take time though. But, I can be a patient guy.

VG


LEOs rarely free hand when they shoot lidar. They may not be resting the LIDAR on a tripod, but they will rest the LIDAR on the window sill against the door jam, on top of the steering wheel or another stable platform. I would like to clarify that when we use a tripod for testing, LIDAR is not attached to the tripod. We use the tripod as a stable platform to rest the LIDAR upon.

To me the use of a tripod as an explaination of the performance of Veil in this test isn't valid.

We have used tripods in he past on vehicles equipped with Veil G4 and a laser jammer in the past with excellent performance results from the jammer/Veil G4 combination. Just look at the results from member Fox in the Hole from our last jammer meet.


Tripod mounts are used in just about every speed trap I've seen here.

If it's not a speed trap but a single LEO tagging people he is like above, resting it steadily on a hard surface.

That video you posted VG proves absolutely nothing about Veil and shows the V1 picking up laser. Nothing from the police perspective. Even the guy filming says he wasn't speeding so that is in absolutely zero way a save of any kind or showing how Veil worked as advertised.

[awj223]

Tripod mounts are used in just about every speed trap I've seen here.

If it's not a speed trap but a single LEO tagging people he is like above, resting it steadily on a hard surface.

That video you posted VG proves absolutely nothing about Veil and shows the V1 picking up laser. Nothing from the police perspective. Even the guy filming says he wasn't speeding so that is in absolutely zero way a save of any kind or showing how Veil worked as advertised.

Don't some LEOs keep shooting to see if the car accelerates? Given that most cars don't even have detectors, most drivers would be oblivious to the fact that they're even being targeted. The fact that you're continuing to be hit doesn't necessarily mean they couldn't get a speed reading...

[The Only Sarge]

First I want to thank Mirage for making the effort and I am going to take the advice of some here not to get into any significant back and forth, contentious our otherwise.

With respect to the targeting, tripod mounts make it much harder on CMs used and is not representative of what happens in the real-world. I saw tripod mounting of police lasers more than 10 years ago when the lidar guns were huge and unwieldy. Hand holding as is done today should have an impact further reducing PTs that occur regardless of the guns used. I know that some of you are questioning Roy's results. I believe YC will have another shot at the same C7 that was tested with him doing the same hand-holding targeting. It would be most interesting to see the relative differences between Roy's ability versus YC's. I believe Mirage when he has the time will re-run these (I would hope without the tape, because it doesn't even look like it was coated consistently anyway) with the guns he has in his possession in a handheld fashion. I would expect to see improvements. As I expressed to Mirage when he shared his experiences, I was expecting better outcomes. I can only attribute this to tripod absolutely rock-steady setups. The other thing I would like to do is to get a better handle on his reflective profile. Seeing some improvement with the tape (even not fully and evenly painted), suggests to me that there are indeed other areas of the vehicle (beyond the lights) that are contributing to his PTs that these latest guns are capitalizing upon. It's also going to be interesting how its going to do against the LTI LRBs, TruSpeeds, older Stalkers, etc. I recall the PL4 we do quite well with too. All I am going to ask is to consider these other factors. If there is something unforeseen with G5 (over G4) which would be adversely impacting its performance over G4 (which I sincerely doubt), we'll address it and I anticipate Mirage's feedback to be helpful in that regard. We will continue to communicate with Mirage as we figure out the dynamics at play here. I was expecting much better, candidly, and so I am very interested in understanding why it didn't show better. One way or another, we'll figure that one out.

I have also asked Mirage to actually drive with G5 in the real-world and document his experiences on the road. This is what we're really interested in seeing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpxCJxvEExE

Cheers.

VG

On a human level we all would like to see you succeed Bob. It is human nature. Folks (including myself) want to see the little guy win.
However this will not float by without me wondering who shit in the pool.
Listen....you stated hand held wasn't "fair" because the operator couldnt hold the gun straight and it was hitting parts of the car without Veil. Now your saying Oh mercy me a tripod isn't fair.......bullshit....just the opposite Bob.....he could target only the parts of the car with Veil. In this case the entire damn front end was veiled/tapped/smothered/slathered in Veil G5. DragonCam and Poliscan are tripod mounted in the wild anyway.....Laser Jammers dont care if a gun is hand held or tripod mounted now do they?
Now you want Mirage to test in the real world? Seriously.....you make significant and definitive claims on your web site. You boast of Radar Roys "test" with no HUD nothing. So you wish to toot your horn with Roys test but a unbiased test with WELL DOCUMENTED parameters you deny? Now after testing, that frankly should have put your product in the absolute best light, it is shown to be basically worthless and your claims even of lesser value. Mirages test went above and beyond in the "real world" using real Veil, applied to your specs, using real world gun on real world cars driving on real world roads. How in the hell would a person using Veil even know if it helped in a real encounter anyway? You going to interview the cop?
Your product has been shown for what it is.
Your response is lame. I am embarrassed for you.....

[The Only Sarge]

First I want to thank Mirage for making the effort and I am going to take the advice of some here not to get into any significant back and forth, contentious our otherwise. ........
Cant do that Bob. Sorta like saying "I'm only gonna stick it in a lil bit".....you rung the bell....cannot unring the bell.

[Tman]

'' Baseline run was done without tape and no Veil. The first two passes were done with very little tape only covering the Logo, Badge and turn signals.''

Mirage i wonder why the turn signals were covered ? They were covered with the blue tape or with Veil or veiled blue tape ?

In either case in real life turn signals are very good reflector therefore should not be ignored (to represent real life) , so the difference should be even less ....or am i missing something ?

[The Only Sarge]

'' Baseline run was done without tape and no Veil. The first two passes were done with very little tape only covering the Logo, Badge and turn signals.''

Mirage i wonder why the turn signals were covered ? They were covered with the blue tape or with Veil or veiled blue tape ?

In either case in real life turn signals are very good reflector therefore should not be ignored (to represent real life) , so the difference should be even less ....or am i missing something ?

The test was the absolute best possible environment and scenario for Veil to perform and it failed even in that environment.

[Mirage]

'' Baseline run was done without tape and no Veil. The first two passes were done with very little tape only covering the Logo, Badge and turn signals.''

Mirage i wonder why the turn signals were covered ? They were covered with the blue tape or with Veil or veiled blue tape ?

In either case in real life turn signals are very good reflector therefore should not be ignored (to represent real life) , so the difference should be even less ....or am i missing something ?
The reason we covered the turn signals (and coated the tape in Veil) was because VG said the head lights were enough to get good performance and due to the way the turn signals are on the Camaro it was too much of a risk to install it directly. While I was willing to try for the sake of the community I didn't want to damage my expensive vehicle especially since it was going to be difficult to remove. I was skeptical about the easy removal based on the other claims. I tested removing from the headlamp assembly and it was not easy to remove. Took some real elbow grease. I wasn't willing to do that again on that area of the car but the head lights I didn't have much choice. Won can attest it would have been a pain in the ass on the turn signals.

[Tman]

Ok , i get it ...sorry if i sounded inquisitive , as Sarge wrote = it was all the odds for the contestant ...and it failed.



The reason we covered the turn signals (and coated the tape in Veil) was because VG said the head lights were enough to get good performance and due to the way the turn signals are on the Camaro it was too much of a risk to install it directly. While I was willing to try for the sake of the community I didn't want to damage my expensive vehicle especially since it was going to be difficult to remove. I was skeptical about the easy removal based on the other claims. I tested removing from the headlamp assembly and it was not easy to remove. Took some real elbow grease. I wasn't willing to do that again on that area of the car but the head lights I didn't have much choice. Won can attest it would have been a pain in the ass on the turn signals.

[hussein]

... I tested removing from the headlamp assembly and it was not easy to remove. Took some real elbow grease. ...

After it cures it is a hassle to remove. I found it was easiest to fill a cup with vinegar to dip the supplied brush in and then rub it like an eraser against the Veiled surface.

[OrlNmE]

The Sarge, All I got to say to you is you need to back off and leave.............. :smiley_simmons:

JK..OK, Now on a serious note, you call it like it is!!! No sugar coating your responses and for that, I commend you. I don't like to get to involved in these heated topics because I, Like you, would call it like I see it, and sometimes I may get a little hot headed if someone tries to blow smoke at me about a product like we are seeing already here. :).

MIRAGE, Thank you for the test, excellent opportunity you gave G5, but it is what it is, the results speak for themselves.

[Tman]

Who would not plunge after reading those diatribes ?

'' Veil G5 improves laser jamming performance by further reducing your vehicle’s overall reflective laser signature (the military calls this “laser cross-section”).
This makes it much easier for your laser jammer to work effectively. In fact, by using Veil G5, you may also be able to reduce the number of jamming heads
you would otherwise require and still achieve superior performance.

For example, instead of needing a three head system for the front, you may only require a two head or even a single head (above the center front plate area).
In other words, you can actually get better protection for LESS MONEY and still achieve superior results with a defense in depth approach with Veil.''
Ref.: http://www.stealthveil.com/faq#faq8

It remembers me the old story of wishfull thinking : you wont get pregnant if you think hard enough you wont.

''Today, police laser guns are being manufactured specifically to defeat laser jammers and nearly all models are being rendered entirely ineffective
as if one were driving without any countermeasure at all. When confronted by these types of police lasers, jammers won’t even alert to these new guns.''

The only good point here is to make believe cops that jammers are toys.

'' The newest lasers have the ability to record and store a jammer’s interference attempts (successful or not)
and this information may then later be reviewed by their manufacturers with the expressed intent of defeating
new jammers or jamming algorithms that appear as software updates.''

Is this true and confirmed ? I never heard of it ...perhaps i am late at the party.

''Veil G5 is a water-borne transparent acrylic latex polymer coating ''
No wonder it is ''After it cures it is a hassle to remove ''

''More is not necessarily better.''
This is the Truth , and it shall be shared to all.

[Mirage]

'' The newest lasers have the ability to record and store a jammer’s interference attempts (successful or not)
and this information may then later be reviewed by their manufacturers with the expressed intent of defeating
new jammers or jamming algorithms that appear as software updates.''

Is this true and confirmed ? I never heard of it ...perhaps i am late at the party.



NO this was a story that was made up and VG believed it. I heard it too and was ROFLMAO.

[Won Hunglo]

Looking forward to the retest. Just to make it fair, Michael J Fox has been invited to shoot the lidars.

[Mirage]

Looking forward to the retest. Just to make it fair, Michael J Fox has been invited to shoot the lidars.

Won now come on... you know as well as I do Michael couldn't make it so we had to settle for Stevie Wonder.

[The Only Sarge]

The Sarge, All I got to say to you is you need to back off and leave.............. :smiley_simmons:

JK..OK, Now on a serious note, you call it like it is!!! No sugar coating your responses and for that, I commend you. I don't like to get to involved in these heated topics because I, Like you, would call it like I see it, and sometimes I may get a little hot headed if someone tries to blow smoke at me about a product like we are seeing already here. :).

MIRAGE, Thank you for the test, excellent opportunity you gave G5, but it is what it is, the results speak for themselves.

Im no kid just looking for an internet forum argument.
I have a real life in the real world......got better things to do.....I am old enough and experienced enough to get my ass in a chapped situation when somebody just flat out runs a con. Laser Veil is a con run by a con and supported with bullshit "testing" by a convicted felon in Radar Roy. It is what it is.
VG will ask for test scenarios until the cows come home with endless bullshit......Mirage is a smart young man and gave his product a HUGE advantage to perform and it was shown to be worthless.
I challenge anybody to go to his (VG) website, read the bullshit and you come tell us (after digesting Mirage and Vortex observations) if any of it is true.
No reason to be hotheaded about anything.
I can go on until my fingers fall off here with bullet points of VG bullshit, provide links out the ass...but why? His product is worthless shit. Period.
But if he ever wants I have a library of his bullshit ready to go. But many have challenged him and all you get is "I misspoke" and "not what I meant"...endless horseshit.
If VG has a brain...at all.....he will just sleaze on down the road.
I have moved on.

[The Only Sarge]

Won now come on... you know as well as I do Michael couldn't make it so we had to settle for Stevie Wonder.

What is this? Do I detect humor?

[The Only Sarge]

Who would not plunge after reading those diatribes ?

'' Veil G5 improves laser jamming performance by further reducing your vehicle’s overall reflective laser signature (the military calls this “laser cross-section”).
This makes it much easier for your laser jammer to work effectively. In fact, by using Veil G5, you may also be able to reduce the number of jamming heads
you would otherwise require and still achieve superior performance.

For example, instead of needing a three head system for the front, you may only require a two head or even a single head (above the center front plate area).
In other words, you can actually get better protection for LESS MONEY and still achieve superior results with a defense in depth approach with Veil.''
Ref.: http://www.stealthveil.com/faq#faq8

It remembers me the old story of wishfull thinking : you wont get pregnant if you think hard enough you wont.

''Today, police laser guns are being manufactured specifically to defeat laser jammers and nearly all models are being rendered entirely ineffective
as if one were driving without any countermeasure at all. When confronted by these types of police lasers, jammers won’t even alert to these new guns.''

The only good point here is to make believe cops that jammers are toys.

'' The newest lasers have the ability to record and store a jammer’s interference attempts (successful or not)
and this information may then later be reviewed by their manufacturers with the expressed intent of defeating
new jammers or jamming algorithms that appear as software updates.''

Is this true and confirmed ? I never heard of it ...perhaps i am late at the party.

''Veil G5 is a water-borne transparent acrylic latex polymer coating ''
No wonder it is ''After it cures it is a hassle to remove ''

''More is not necessarily better.''
This is the Truth , and it shall be shared to all.

Tman...any good con man will sprinkle bits of truth in with boatloads of bullshit. It gives them deniable options.
Example:
Laser Veil absorbs the laser ...blah blah...
Well sorta.....it has components in it that are manufactured by third parties that are proven to absorb laser. But does that mean it will provide real world protection? Hell no. It is a partial truth that is playing on the average Joe making the ASSUMPTION he will be protected in a actual real world Police encounter shooting laser. But he doesnt say that...he just tells you Laser Veil is proven to absorb laser.
It is a classic con statement with deniable outs when challenged.
Then you get into the endless loop of acceptable testing parameters. Hand held is not fair....oh wait....tripod held is not fair....no wait a minute.....
Your test course needs to be 40000000000 feet....oh wait.....you have to use a car that is all black and no headlights or chrome and no front license plate....you see what is happening here? Endless. Well it ended the day Mirage did his test.
Then a good con man will play the human element. Oh this is my baby...I worked so hard.....I am a pioneer in the industry (self appointed)....on and on. Bullshit again. Does your product do what you claim on your web sight? Yes or No. Do you have anybody who is not a convicted felon that can test/document and verify these claims are accurate?

[Tman]

'' Well sorta.....it has components in it that are manufactured by third parties that are proven to absorb laser.''

Well this is what the patent says ...once a patent is given , is there any obligation to keep the described recipe ?

Some people will believe in homeopathy , that is ok , but to sell with promised\certified results based on anecdotic expereriences is ...FAITH.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

A muslim jumped from a plane shouting Inch Allah ...crashed.
A non-believer jumped with a parachute...saved.

[NYSpeederPVM]

Just look at the results from member Fox in the Hole from our last jammer meet.

I was there for this and it was pretty hard to deny he had good results, better than expected, and he was running LIs not alps. Now, personally I'm not willing to slather crap anywhere on my car, but for 100 bux or whatever I still think the product has value, especially when people are dropping 5k on the stinger.

[Tman]

I see your point , but why not spend for a Alp quad and the rf portion of Stinger ?

[dinkydi]

that set up works a great $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ well spent

[hussein]

I am genuinely not satisfied with my purchase and a few days ago I decided to try and return my G5 to the vendor I purchased it from, Radar Roy.

Unfortunately once you open Veil, Radar Roy says he will not take it back. So I emailed Veil Guy a few days ago and am waiting.

Otherwise, what am I supposed to do with this stuff?

[dinkydi]

here in OZ if u purchase goods and they don't perform as advertised or displayed, or not satatisfied the product , a full refund is given no questions it is the law, chek ur legal rights

[OrlNmE]

I was there for this and it was pretty hard to deny he had good results, better than expected, and he was running LIs not alps. Now, personally I'm not willing to slather crap anywhere on my car, but for 100 bux or whatever I still think the product has value, especially when people are dropping 5k on the stinger.

HUSSEIN, NYSpeederPVM finds G5 to be worth it, let's see if he wants to put his money where his mouth is and buy it from you. That would be impressive to see NYSpeeder.

As for others who talk ridiculous stuff, Stinger is pure stupidity in my opinion when you have proven better products for a much better price. I will retire from CM's the day I have to spend money for CM's like Stinger. People who talk about wanting it have plenty of money to spend or throw away, which is OK if that is the case or are just plain stupid. Sorry to offend some of you idiots, but it is what it is.

[The Only Sarge]

I was there for this and it was pretty hard to deny he had good results, better than expected, and he was running LIs not alps. Now, personally I'm not willing to slather crap anywhere on my car, but for 100 bux or whatever I still think the product has value, especially when people are dropping 5k on the stinger.
I would be curious at what distances FitH realized a benefit. I cannot find the test Yellowcab is referring to. Of course I am old and stupid......link assist please.

[The Only Sarge]

HUSSEIN, NYSpeederPVM finds G5 to be worth it, let's see if he wants to put his money where his mouth is and buy it from you. That would be impressive to see NYSpeeder.

As for others who talk ridiculous stuff, Stinger is pure stupidity in my opinion when you have proven better products for a much better price. I will retire from CM's the day I have to spend money for CM's like Stinger. People who talk about wanting it have plenty of money to spend or throw away, which is OK if that is the case or are just plain stupid. Sorry to offend some of you idiots, but it is what it is.

LOL....grumply old bastahd.
Why do people spend $400 for a pair of jeans? Doesnt make them look any better. But it gives them satisfaction that they have the most expensive jeans. We cannot be critical of their choice of buying and wearing $400 jeans as it is their choice. Their money and their justification rational is outside our realm of understanding......I know some dumb old bastahds that put $150K into cars just to go out and put themselves in harms way to see who can get to Don Mills Ontario and back the fastest......pee in a bucket in a car going 120mph....I mean what kind of idiot would do that? Oh wait a minute....never mind.

[NYSpeederPVM]

When I mentioned the price of the stinger I wasn't commenting on how good or not good or worth it/not worth it is, I just meant that veil at $100 is a relative bargain considering what we spend for an alp, or a redline, a v1, a scanner etc.

Fox in the holes results at the jammer meet were really good, and most of us there had a feeling it was the veil all over his plate and headlights.

To truly test this you'd have to do a ton of runs with a couple different cars with jammers on, get an average punch through distance, then apply veil, do the same number of runs in the exact same way and find that average punch through distance. This would be a tough test to do and would take some serious time.

[Mirage]

I would be curious at what distances FitH realized a benefit. I cannot find the test Yellowcab is referring to. Of course I am old and stupid......link assist please.

http://www.raletc.com/2014/09/raletc-lidar-user-meet-sept-2014-testing-results/

Compare the Laser Interceptor Vehicles.

[The Only Sarge]

http://www.raletc.com/2014/09/raletc-lidar-user-meet-sept-2014-testing-results/

Compare the Laser Interceptor Vehicles.

OK thank you Mirage.
So after reading it...It could have been the frontal area and separation of the heads (lack of crosstalk) that caused the JTG back to back performance...it could have been the Veil.....it could have been a perfect installation....all according to the author there.
I firmly believe cutting down the reflectivity is a plus. No doubt in my mind. The question in this thread and the purpose of Mirage's test Sunday are simple. Does Veil perform as advertised? Yes or No. Fox in the Hole runs are inconclusive concerning Veil. As a LI user I love his results....but I do not see anywhere in the test nor the writeup that I could contribute his success to one particular item or product.
Bottom line for me is I wish like hell Veil worked. I have no personal ax to grind here. If it worked and could be definitively proven to work I would slap that shit all over the GT500 and the GTO and go like hell. But we all know the answer to that wish.....DENIED.

[curmudgeon]

But we all know the answer to that wish.....DENIED.


If wishes were horses
Then beggars would ride
If wishes were fishes
We'd have them all fried

[BestRadarDetectors]

OK thank you Mirage.
So after reading it...It could have been the frontal area and separation of the heads (lack of crosstalk) that caused the JTG back to back performance...it could have been the Veil.....it could have been a perfect installation....all according to the author there.
I firmly believe cutting down the reflectivity is a plus. No doubt in my mind. The question in this thread and the purpose of Mirage's test Sunday are simple. Does Veil perform as advertised? Yes or No. Fox in the Hole runs are inconclusive concerning Veil. As a LI user I love his results....but I do not see anywhere in the test nor the writeup that I could contribute his success to one particular item or product.

This is why I wish we had HUD on those runs and why I requested HUD video on any product testings. Of course this is not possible due to time in regular user meets but for product testing it needs to be done. There could be many reasons for those results and the results were inconsistent from one run to another. Its virtually impossible to see why that run was good... Did the LI's work on that run and catch the Compact in an pattern it liked? Did G4 (The car was slopped with it) help? Did the shooter stay on target? Its impossible to know without seeing the video to answer many questions.

[The Only Sarge]

This is why I wish we had HUD on those runs and why I requested HUD video on any product testings. Of course this is not possible due to time in regular user meets but for product testing it needs to be done. There could be many reasons for those results and the results were inconsistent from one run to another. Its virtually impossible to see why that run was good... Did the LI's work on that run and catch the Compact in an pattern it liked? Did G4 (The car was slopped with it) help? Did the shooter stay on target? Its impossible to know without seeing the video to answer many questions.

Well said BRD.
I believe the French would call that "inconclusive".

[Salty]

When I mentioned the price of the stinger I wasn't commenting on how good or not good or worth it/not worth it is, I just meant that veil at $100 is a relative bargain considering what we spend for an alp, or a redline, a v1, a scanner etc.

Fox in the holes results at the jammer meet were really good, and most of us there had a feeling it was the veil all over his plate and headlights.

To truly test this you'd have to do a ton of runs with a couple different cars with jammers on, get an average punch through distance, then apply veil, do the same number of runs in the exact same way and find that average punch through distance. This would be a tough test to do and would take some serious time.

Bullshit. I don't care how cheap a product is. If it doesn't do shit, it's not a bargain.

[dinkydi]

HUSSEIN, NYSpeederPVM finds G5 to be worth it, let's see if he wants to put his money where his mouth is and buy it from you. That would be impressive to see NYSpeeder.

As for others who talk ridiculous stuff, Stinger is pure stupidity in my opinion when you have proven better products for a much better price. I will retire from CM's the day I have to spend money for CM's like Stinger. People who talk about wanting it have plenty of money to spend or throw away, which is OK if that is the case or are just plain stupid. Sorry to offend some of you idiots, but it is what it is.
understand ur comments on Stinger purchase in Us, here in oz Stinger is the only Rd to cover our needs fully, and there's little difference in prices compared to other units available, also I guess it's also up to the person what he buys/prices on anything really

[Yellowcab]

Based on the installation, the model of jammer and car, I normally should have gotten some PTs. Also from he feedback I was getting from the lidars I can say with certainty that Vei G4l greatly improved the performace on that vehicle. Will G5 have the same performance as G4, I do not know. If I was Fox in the Hole, I wouldn't remove the G4 unless he wants greater output from his headlights.

[Mirage]

I have a different take on the effectiveness of Veil G4 and the Fox In the Hole car. First of all, if you look at the results between Christopher Khol (Also LI 8.18) and Fox in the Hole you will see there was very little difference between them other than Stalker, but that also is an older gun that is no longer in use. If we assume < 200 is considered JTG then:



Gun
Christopher Khol
Fox In the Hole


ProLaser IV
JTG
JTG


ProLite
JTG
JTG


ProLaser III
JTG
JTG


Stalker LR
JTG
JTG


Stalker XLR
JTG
JTG


LTI LR B
JTG
JTG


Truspeed
JTG
JTG


Truspeed S
244
JTG


Truspeed SX
584
JTG


Truspeed LR
287
306


DALA #4
JTG
JTG


DALA #5
IPT
IPT


Compact #1
512
310


Compact #2
651
IPT




When you compare them side by side they are very close. Keep in mind the Truspeed SX was tearing everything up that day so it was luck of the draw as to whether you got a PT. Both of these guys had at least one run against COMPACT #1 that was JTG. We also had the same results on our test car on the previous day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89Ij6cPzELc

In addition, during my pre-testing or 8.17 I had nearly the same result on my own car.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-9Cn5MDrss

I was also shooting that day and I couldn't tell a difference in his car or Christopher Khol's car. It would still be speculation that Veil G4 was contributing anything to the performance of the vehicle and if it was ever determined to be a contributing factor it was MARGINAL at best as the results are too close to call.

[The Only Sarge]

But in a passive counter measure situation there should not be much of a variable between guns. IE.....laser is laser and if I say my stuff will absorb it in a passive environment then what gun and pulse rate I shoot you with is irrelevant. And the results should be much more consistent than a active solution
One of you big heads set me straight but that is how I see it.

[The Only Sarge]

Based on the installation, the model of jammer and car, I normally should have gotten some PTs. Also from he feedback I was getting from the lidars I can say with certainty that Vei G4l greatly improved the performace on that vehicle. Will G5 have the same performance as G4, I do not know. If I was Fox in the Hole, I wouldn't remove the G4 unless he wants greater output from his headlights.

I hear what your saying YC.......
But I see performance of IPT on FitH car (with Veil) on one gun and jamming going on the non Veil car.....this is where I am struggling....passive should work and be consistent in testing. Much more consistent than active solutions with so many outside influences ie alignment, angles etc. I just do not see that....I see inconsistencies as shown in Mirages test results spreadsheet that shouldnt be there if the passive solution was working.
I also see a HUD of Mirage and his Camaro JTG with an older LI and no Veil. So the variable cannot be attributed to A) Car with Veil B) Car with no Veil but more with the active solution inconsistency IMHO.

[Tman]

'' passive should work and be consistent in testing.''

I blame the glossiness for the inconsistency, left is banana stuff , right is original Veil

3762

[tawwwd]

Can we do a retest with Tmans goop slathered all over the camaro? That stuff seems way better!

[Mirage]

That is a product that looks like it really works well even against the full power of the lidar up close and personal. Really nice tman.

We need to talk.

[hussein]

'' passive should work and be consistent in testing.''

I blame the glossiness for the inconsistency, left is banana stuff , right is original Veil

3762

Can someone please explain where the delineation is? Thanks!

[Tman]

Do you mean where each stuff is placed ?
3763

'' Can someone please explain where the delineation is? Thanks! ''

[The Only Sarge]

I think your on to something there Tman.......
The glossiness of Veil definitely connects the dots in the engineer side of my brain and could be an answer to the inconsistent nature of Veil.
This falls into my theory of reflectivity. You can call it glossiness I will call it reflectivity and we both are having a raging agreement.
I will hold off calling the guys about your statue in front of the office but I do think your on the right path.
Great job....you photo speaks volumes......

[The Only Sarge]

Is this the stuff Tman?
http://www.homedepot.com/p/DecoArt-Americana-Decor-16-oz-Everlasting-Chalky-Finish-ADC01-83/204660551?MERCH=REC-_-PIPHorizontal1_rr-_-204660594-_-204660551-_-N

I think between my headlight armor (doesnt reduce output but kills reflectivity) and this stuff on all the chrome one would SIGNIFICANTLY reduce reflectivity and not draw attention to yourself. I have some spare license plates (Texas) and am going to pick some the clear stuff @ Home Depot today......I will then shoot my IR Laser at it and see what I get.....

Bottom line is to kill reflectivity.....License Plate, Chrome, Headlights. Then test.

[Tman]

I use Mod Podge Mat , waterbase sealer,glue & finish from Plaid.It has one drawback : when very wet it turns whiteish (under rain) ,then returns clear when dry . Anyway it is easy to remove with alcool\methanol.

No Sarge , i dont know this one.

Chalk finish should kill pretty well reflectivity.




Is this the stuff Tman?
http://www.homedepot.com/p/DecoArt-Americana-Decor-16-oz-Everlasting-Chalky-Finish-ADC01-83/204660551?MERCH=REC-_-PIPHorizontal1_rr-_-204660594-_-204660551-_-N

I think between my headlight armor (doesnt reduce output but kills reflectivity) and this stuff on all the chrome one would SIGNIFICANTLY reduce reflectivity and not draw attention to yourself. I have some spare license plates (Texas) and am going to pick some the clear stuff @ Home Depot today......I will then shoot my IR Laser at it and see what I get.....

Bottom line is to kill reflectivity.....License Plate, Chrome, Headlights. Then test.

[NYSpeederPVM]

Bullshit. I don't care how cheap a product is. If it doesn't do shit, it's not a bargain.
That's the thing, I'm still not convinced it doesn't do anything at all. Now, did I ever think for two seconds it would stand alone against laser? No way. But, I am pretty sure when it's behind a nice set of jammers, it makes them work even better.

Now, if veil guy is claiming it stands on its own, that's bs for sure, but I feel like I'm seeing pitchforks and torches in this thread when really we still don't know for sure that it does absolutely zero. Close to zero maybe but when the discussion is among a group of people that want every advantage possible I still think veil has the possibility of adding to a "layered" setup. And again 100 is a drop in the bucket for some people's setups.

[The Only Sarge]

Show me where it does a damn thing.
Your missing the point to all of this....has nothing to do with pitchforks and shovels......it has all to do with claims made by VeilGuy on his website and real world testing. Not just this one test....but more than a few showing it doesnt do diddly shit within distances that mean anything. Go read his website and come back and tell me your all good it does what he claims. Lets review......some of his claims...
All of these claims are with JUST VEIL ONE COAT....
Makes your car invisible.
Dragon Slayer (killing the DragonEye all by itself)
on and on....go see for yourself.
One coat protects you from Police Laser

[dinkydi]

also read some where that normal tin of women's hair lacquer sprayed onto # plate helps with reflecting , but never tried it

[Tman]

Dont try it ...your wife will start an argument : '' hey you took all my spray net ...i dont go out tonight !! '':ambivalence:
also read some where that normal tin of women's hair lacquer sprayed onto # plate helps with reflecting , but never tried it

Tried = not doing a bit .

[dinkydi]

ur not going out 2 nite :roflmfao: