What is Next for the AL Priority?

[BestRadarDetectors]

As many of you have noticed a new AntiLaser Priority CPU was released in October 2014, this is part of the evolving AntiLaser product and at this time it is NOT necessary to upgrade your CPU. The only new feature available for the V2 CPU's that is not available in the original AL Priority CPU released in 2013 is the ability to dim the EXTERNAL led. This was a feature that many people had asked for because the external led was so bright, but it was not possible with the current hardware. So ALP improved it.

Think of this like a cell phone. I personally started in the past with a Galaxy Nexus phone and a year or so later the Note 2 was released and a year after that the Note 3 came out and a year later the Note 4. As technology improves so does the products that are released on the market. Should I be pissed that I spent $500 on the note 2 when 2 years later the Note 4 is now released? Does Samsung owe me something because they improved the product? The thought of buying a product today and expecting it will be good forever is not realistic unless technology stands still. As a manufacture you need to improve your product every year or so or as history has shown us you will eventually fall behind.

If you look at Anti Lasers past you will see that they continue to improve and keep up with technology.

AntiLaser G8 (Generation 8, 2006)
AntiLaser G9 (Generation 9, 2009)
AntiLaser RX (Generation 10, 2010)
AntiLaser RX2 (Generation 11, 2011)
AntiLaser PRIORITY (Generation 12, 2013)

Can I promise you that the ALP you purchased in 2013 will support guns that have not even been created yet and might come out several years from now? No, unfortunately that is impossible to guarantee, but what I can guarantee is that AntiLaser will keep improving and do its best to stay ahead of the curve. If that means there are several different revisions over the next several years, then it means the product is improving. Its much easier to keep ahead of technology than sit idle and realize several years from now that you missed the boat.

In October 2014 AntiLaser released V2 of the AL Priority and I would not be surprised if down the line there will be a V3 or more in the next several years. AntiLaser will of course continue to support previous users and do what they can to give everyone the most time out of their units. Heck there are customers that had Generation 9 systems from 5 years ago and they recently upgraded their CPU and they are using their old heads on the AL Priority CPU for a small investment in a new CPU.

The original AL Priority defends against every single gun available. This has not changed. The V2 units will add new features, but protection will be the same across all CPU's. I can guarantee you if there is ever a lapse in the protection we will let everyone know in the event it becomes necessary to upgrade to a newer CPU. AntiLaser will continue to improve their products as they refuse to stand still and this is one of the reasons I chose to get on board with them as the US distributor. As I stated earlier, at the moment the only new feature released with the V2 CPU's is the ability to dim the brightness on the EXTERNAL led. If this feature is paramount to your install then by all means upgrade, but if not then sit back, relax and know that the next time you encounter a police lidar you will be fully protected. Can the other manufacturers say the same?

Thanks for listening

Tom

[dragons]

No complaints here about anything from AL. The new version of the CPU from what I see only adds some cosmetic feature changes.
I'm quite happy with the whole system and how it functions, the only thing I would really like to see is a way to quiet down K band with radar integration, recent firmware updates seem to have improved that a little but there is still a long way to go on that also perhaps an unbranded version of ALPconnect.

If AL released a new version of the CPU that introduced revolutionary changes that provide substantial benefits I would more than likely buy it...

In the meantime, keep it up AL you have a great product.

[awj223]

Of course you can't promise that the current ALP will support guns that haven't been created yet. But what you can do is make it easier to upgrade products as long as you stay within the AL family of products. Upgrading a phone is easy; upgrading a laser jammer is a pain in the a**. Some suggestions:

1. Standard power connector. Plugs into car's power system, and each generation of AL CPU plugs into it. Want to upgrade the CPU? Just connect the new CPU to the old power connector. (didn't see the G9 power connector, but is the ALP's power connector compatible with it?)
2. Standard cable connectors. Connect each generation of sensor to the standard cable connectors. That way, you only have to wire through your firewall once.

Let's say a new product called the Antilaser Priority Plus comes out. It has new sensors and a new CPU, of course. If the power connector is not compatible, I'd have to connect the new CPU to my car's power system and open up the fuse area to do it. I'd have to pull the old wires out of the firewall and run the new ones. I'd have to pull out all of my control set wires from behind the instrument panel and wire new ones. Why not have standard connectors between the CPU and certain key points to make upgrading easier?

You can't promise that a product will be good forever, but you can make the upgrade process much less painful.

[Mirage]

You have to remember that even with some of the other manufacturers there were several revisions of their hardware many times they were to support a change in parts suppliers or even a new interface like the LSP. Regardless these changes are necessary for any company to continue growing. I'm personally impressed with how far ahead the AntiLaser engineers have thought about this product and made it so that now many things are simply a firmware change away from being available. In addition, many of these changes happen almost overnight. That by itself is impressive. Tom has always been on the forefront of ensuring we as a community have the very best protection. He told AntiLaser he would not sell their product if it didn't protect against everything. He has spent a significant amount of time and money on improving the product and making sure we as a community are FULLY protected and for that I applaud him. It is by far the best product to date hands down and we have Tom to thank for the majority of these new features.

[specifics]

A piece of colored Saran Wrap or piece of window tint clippings at your local shop will be way cheaper than a new CPU at this time.... The one thing I feel confident about is I bought the best when the best came out.... same as my recent Galaxy S5 I just bought and started with at Verizon. I asked where I could start where my equipment would not be obsolete in a few months (years to be optimistic) and feel confident that it will be relevant.... Do I expect this to be the best forever... hell no..... for that matter I'm already scheming to coerce the wife into a CTS-V in 2016-17 depending if they come out with a manual transmission. My point is, we have to do the best with what we have, resources as well as product and feel as if we have the best at the time. I do with my ALP's and will upgrade as my needs upgrade or obsessiveness dictates.

Nice write up Tom..... and Mirage...

[lugnuts]

as long as all the add ons will work with any upgraded heads/cpus in the next few years that would be nice. I understand thats not always possible but only having to upgrade one or two components is easier then having to replace everything every few years.

[Qui-Gon]

No complaints from me...been enjoying FULL protection since I decided to sell my LI. Best decision I've made, CM wise!

[Tman]

The way i see any product : they are perfect from the side of the manufacturer.

When i have one in my hand i immediately think to make it ''mine'' = to fit my needs
to its fullest. It could as simply as sanding the Cpu , erase all logo , because it is my need.

What i would like from Alp , which is closely perfect , is not only adding features
but also improve the one already present.

An example : the Hifi is great , can we make it more sophisticated like but not exclusively :
1) automatic gain volume
2) hackable voice pack
3) xxxxxxxxxxxx your need.

Car makers have this sickness : instead of improving a good model ,
they scrap it and start again a new but still only good model ....and on and on such as
Ford Contour\Mystique .

[FJR1300]

Tom, you should know that some people expect the current AL cpu to be able to defeat Moore's Law, while they happily upgrade their phone, tv, gaming console, laptop and car every couple of years just because they look cooler ;)

[kasher1979]

As many of you have noticed a new AntiLaser Priority CPU was released in October 2014, this is part of the evolving AntiLaser product and at this time it is NOT necessary to upgrade your CPU. The only new feature available for the V2 CPU's that is not available in the original AL Priority CPU released in 2013 is the ability to dim the EXTERNAL led. This was a feature that many people had asked for because the external led was so bright, but it was not possible with the current hardware. So ALP improved it.

Think of this like a cell phone. I personally started in the past with a Galaxy Nexus phone and a year or so later the Note 2 was released and a year after that the Note 3 came out and a year later the Note 4. As technology improves so does the products that are released on the market. Should I be pissed that I spent $500 on the note 2 when 2 years later the Note 4 is now released? Does Samsung owe me something because they improved the product? The thought of buying a product today and expecting it will be good forever is not realistic unless technology stands still. As a manufacture you need to improve your product every year or so or as history has shown us you will eventually fall behind.

If you look at Anti Lasers past you will see that they continue to improve and keep up with technology.

AntiLaser G8 (Generation 8, 2006)
AntiLaser G9 (Generation 9, 2009)
AntiLaser RX (Generation 10, 2010)
AntiLaser RX2 (Generation 11, 2011)
AntiLaser PRIORITY (Generation 12, 2013)

Can I promise you that the ALP you purchased in 2013 will support guns that have not even been created yet and might come out several years from now? No, unfortunately that is impossible to guarantee, but what I can guarantee is that AntiLaser will keep improving and do its best to stay ahead of the curve. If that means there are several different revisions over the next several years, then it means the product is improving. Its much easier to keep ahead of technology than sit idle and realize several years from now that you missed the boat.

In October 2014 AntiLaser released V2 of the AL Priority and I would not be surprised if down the line there will be a V3 or more in the next several years. AntiLaser will of course continue to support previous users and do what they can to give everyone the most time out of their units. Heck there are customers that had Generation 9 systems from 5 years ago and they recently upgraded their CPU and they are using their old heads on the AL Priority CPU for a small investment in a new CPU.

The original AL Priority defends against every single gun available. This has not changed. The V2 units will add new features, but protection will be the same across all CPU's. I can guarantee you if there is ever a lapse in the protection we will let everyone know in the event it becomes necessary to upgrade to a newer CPU. AntiLaser will continue to improve their products as they refuse to stand still and this is one of the reasons I chose to get on board with them as the US distributor. As I stated earlier, at the moment the only new feature released with the V2 CPU's is the ability to dim the brightness on the EXTERNAL led. If this feature is paramount to your install then by all means upgrade, but if not then sit back, relax and know that the next time you encounter a police lidar you will be fully protected. Can the other manufacturers say the same?

Thanks for listening

Tom

Excellent post. I feel a lot of pride and excitement to read this and know that I am part of this great family of ALP users. I know that sounds kind of corny, but it is true. ALP is the only product that I own that I feel truly a peace of mind that someone is behind the product looking out for me. I don't have to get on the Internet trying to do my own research or sending emails to the manufacturer asking why this and why that. Or asking when will this or that happen. Most of the time before I even know what is going on or even have a chance to ask; AntiLaser already has it fixed. It is really quite awesome. If this monster lidar is released tonight you bet AL will be on it like stink on cow patties. (Kentucky talk there). :p


I am VERY impressed. So far everything has been a total breeze in setting this up. My Hifi setup was great and went perfectly. I just can't say enough good things about it. Maybe I should do a commercial for you Tom. Lol. Great job!!

[kasher1979]

Tom, you should know that some people expect the current AL cpu to be able to defeat Moore's Law, while they happily upgrade their phone, tv, gaming console, laptop and car every couple of years just because they look cooler ;)

There will always be haters and complainers about anything.

Most of you know that I am a religious person. In our faith we believe our God was perfect. Our scriptures tell us he was perfect. But yet he had haters and complainers but he was healing people for crying out loud. Lol. Someone will complain no matter what. But nevertheless this product is virtually perfect and great. Keep up the good work.

[tawwwd]

I think you missed the part for what is actually coming next :p

[Abarth695]

Well said.

[BestRadarDetectors]

There is no way for any company to tell you that a product purchased today will protect you against new threats that might not even be created yet. I just know that in order to stay on top there will always be a need for constant improvements. I just want people to understand that yes they are buying a product today and for today it will protect you against everything that's out there but if something new comes out and it requires new hardware or more power we will keep adapting and change equipment as needed. We wont sweep it under the rug like the competitors.

[kasher1979]

We wont sweep it under the rug like the competitors.

And that's what I love about the ALP more than anything. That's peace of mind. I don't know why anyone would be worried about purchasing and thinking they won't be protected. Updating hardware or whatever is no issue with me. The issue is GIVE ME SOMETHING. ALP has proven they will do that. It's going to cost money to keep things updated. I would rather spend money and update than nothing be available to spend money on while the product becomes obsolete.

[OrlNmE]

I think we have beaten this horse to death already... ALP is the best and as things change we'll adjust as we go. Look at their history, they make it as easy as possible for everyone who owns their product. AMEN... Move on..

[awj223]

I think we have beaten this horse to death already... ALP is the best and as things change we'll adjust as we go. Look at their history, they make it as easy as possible for everyone who owns their product. AMEN... Move on..

Well the longer history of the jammer industry is that a new king is crowned every 3-5 years or so. AL is the king as of 2014. I'd like to see them hold onto that title but who knows what will happen 10 years from now? Hopefully we'll reach a point where multiple companies have products out there that can protect against everything, instead of just having one.

[kasher1979]

Well the longer history of the jammer industry is that a new king is crowned every 3-5 years or so. AL is the king as of 2014. I'd like to see them hold onto that title but who knows what will happen 10 years from now? Hopefully we'll reach a point where multiple companies have products out there that can protect against everything, instead of just having one.

Hopefully so BUT it seems all the others have history now of sweeping things under the rug. Tom has promised this will not happen. They have proven already that it won't. I think if it does ever get to the point that it's "swept under the rug" with AntiLaser that Tom will move on to greener pastures. I think the best thing to do is not worry so much about the future and just enjoy the product for what it is currently. Normally we don't buy an iPhone 6 and sit around and stress out about the 7 coming out. Just enjoy.....

[BestRadarDetectors]

I think we have beaten this horse to death already... ALP is the best and as things change we'll adjust as we go. Look at their history, they make it as easy as possible for everyone who owns their product. AMEN... Move on..

This thread was not to gloat but more of an explanation on why the ALP can not stay the same forever. I have received probably 30+ email complaints from customers complaining how they were mad that AL released a 2.0 CPU and they only purchased their 1.0 a few months earlier. This is what happens with technology and as a manufacture you cant stand still and there will always be an improved product in the future. The ALP will keep changing and improving and there is just no way of not keeping up with technology changes and continuing to move forward. If you wait for the next greatest product when its released there will always be the fear that another one will come out next year or so and you might be waiting forever.

Look at how many people have been waiting to buy a new V1 because of all the forum gossip that a new version is around the corner. The rumors are going on over a year now and people are still waiting and many are holding out for a long time.

[ECMExpert]

. If this feature is paramount to your install then by all means upgrade, but if not then sit back, relax and know that the next time you encounter a police lidar you will be fully protected. Can the other manufacturers say the same?

Thanks for listening

Tom

Mike V has been telling US the same thing for years :):)

[ECMExpert]

Look at how many people have been waiting to buy a new V1 because of all the forum gossip that a new version is around the corner. The rumors are going on over a year now and people are still waiting and many are holding out for a long time.

and waiting and waiting.....


I will give ALP this, they work fast and furious to address any concerns with their units and continuous improvement is to be expected. What other company, after Raletc's last tests would within a few weeks if not days have an answer to a problem MOST of us didnt realize we even had. Gotta love ALP for that and more....................................

TOM, there are always those that want the latest and greatest, even if its NOT the greatest, they want it. Funny thing is, IN the RD world, the greatest is NOT the latest and is almost 10 years old now and is SO in demand, that if they made new ones, they'd have a waiting list..........YES, the STIR-O :):) (and the Redline as well).

[BestRadarDetectors]

Hopefully so BUT it seems all the others have history now of sweeping things under the rug. Tom has promised this will not happen. They have proven already that it won't. I think if it does ever get to the point that it's "swept under the rug" with AntiLaser that Tom will move on to greener pastures. I think the best thing to do is not worry so much about the future and just enjoy the product for what it is currently. Normally we don't buy an iPhone 6 and sit around and stress out about the 7 coming out. Just enjoy.....

X2, Thanks Kasher that is exactly my point. For a good example look at the last RALETC test where we were introduced to the new SX and we did very poor against this brand new gun & firmware. I just purchased that new gun prior to the test and it was never tested before and I never even took it out of the box. When RALETC said they were doing their test I sent them the new gun and asked then to check it out and see if anything was new. I could have easily tested the gun and found the issue prior to the test and quietly updated for it but we did not do it. We took heat for having the PT's but we immediately reacted and got to the bottom of it and fixed the issue and whether or not you had the 1.0 or 2.0 CPU the fix was released to everyone.

[ECMExpert]

X2, Thanks Kasher that is exactly my point. For a good example look at the last RALETC test where we were introduced to the new SX and we did very poor against this brand new gun & firmware. I just purchased that new gun prior to the test and it was never tested before and I never even took it out of the box. When RALETC said they were doing their test I sent them the new gun and asked then to check it out and see if anything was new. I could have easily tested the gun and found the issue prior to the test and quietly updated for it but we did not do it. We took heat for having the PT's but we immediately reacted and got to the bottom of it and fixed the issue and whether or not you had the 1.0 or 2.0 CPU the fix was released to everyone.

Beat you to it in my post above 21 :):)

[kasher1979]

X2, Thanks Kasher that is exactly my point. For a good example look at the last RALETC test where we were introduced to the new SX and we did very poor against this brand new gun & firmware. I just purchased that new gun prior to the test and it was never tested before and I never even took it out of the box. When RALETC said they were doing their test I sent them the new gun and asked then to check it out and see if anything was new. I could have easily tested the gun and found the issue prior to the test and quietly updated for it but we did not do it. We took heat for having the PT's but we immediately reacted and got to the bottom of it and fixed the issue and whether or not you had the 1.0 or 2.0 CPU the fix was released to everyone.

To be honest I really don't know for sure which CPU I got and I really don't care. Lol. I think it may have been the newer one. But the reason I say that I don't care is because I know either one protects me from all known Lidars. That's all that I care about. Maybe it's because I have tried so many things and been on both sides of the fence that I am so thankful and happy now.

[FJR1300]

You could always offer a "lifetime free hardware upgrade package" to the people that just have to have the latest iteration of everything they own , at a premium price of course. That way no one could rightfully bitch, since they had a choice from the start :)

[syrinx]

It could be nice in the future to be able to connect a V1.

[Mirage]

It could be nice in the future to be able to connect a V1.

If you look at the radar module you will see a connection for it already. So it looks like the hardware is complete. Hopefully soon.

[radargeek]

If you look at the radar module you will see a connection for it already. So it looks like the hardware is complete. Hopefully soon.Hopefully it's ESP compatible. Knowing AL it probably is.

[Mirage]

Hopefully it's ESP compatible. Knowing AL it probably is.

Last I heard yes. They were looking for some documentation on the protocol last year.

[orwellophile]

As many of you have noticed a new AntiLaser Priority CPU was released in October 2014, this is part of the evolving AntiLaser product and at this time it is NOT necessary to upgrade your CPU. The only new feature available for the V2 CPU's that is not available in the original AL Priority CPU released in 2013 is the ability to dim the EXTERNAL led.

You're probably making sound worse than it really is. It's not like the newer ALP have new (faster) CPU, in the way that a new computer has. I'm guessing everything inside the controlbox is the same, except there's now a trivial wiring (pcb etching) change, linked the external LED to a GPIO line via a transistor or somesuch.

Or have really upgraded the actual CPU?

And what *is* the CPU, while we're on the topic... apart from "dual 100mhz" of course. I'm happy to pull mine apart when it arrives, but I'd hate to void my warrantee just to find a big blob of black plastic.

Perhaps we could have a sweepstake or something, I'll take "ARM Cortex-M4".

[radargeek]

Perhaps we could have a sweepstake or something, I'll take "ARM Cortex-M4".Some time ago someone posted pics of the CPU innards, and there were two PIC24-series processors in there.

As for what was changed in the version 2 CPU, something in the way the external LED is driven. It could be as simple as moving the LED to a set of CPU I/O pins that have hardware PWM capability. Or, maybe a transistor was added to the LED common pin to allow PWMing all three colors by using a single I/O.

There could be other changes to account for parts availability, etc. Often there are board revisions because a part becomes unavailable and something else has to be used instead, or a cheaper part replacing a costlier one, or the same part is only available or cheaper in a different package type, etc, but with no affect on the actual operation of the unit.

[orwellophile]

Some time ago someone posted pics of the CPU innards, and there were two PIC24-series processors in there.

As for what was changed in the version 2 CPU, something in the way the external LED is driven. It could be as simple as moving the LED to a set of CPU I/O pins that have hardware PWM capability. Or, maybe a transistor was added to the LED common pin to allow PWMing all three colors by using a single I/O.

There could be other changes to account for parts availability, etc. Often there are board revisions because a part becomes unavailable and something else has to be used instead, or a cheaper part replacing a costlier one, or the same part is only available or cheaper in a different package type, etc, but with no affect on the actual operation of the unit.

I would assume a GPIO line with PWM capability was routed to an added transistor... oh wait, you just said that. :)

I'd be interested to see that pic, the box says Dual 16/32bit 100mhz. It could have been a PIC24 (16 bit) and a PIC32. The PIC32MX has the flash to store the 460KB firmware update, but only 128KB of SRAM. But it can run code from SRAM, so it's possible that it could self-update, loading a minimal set of instructions into memory, just enough to read the USB stick, and write to it's own flash (and decode the cipher).

My unit arrived today, so after I make sure it actually does work, I'll see for myself whats in the box :)

[orwellophile]

Good god that LED is bright!

[orwellophile]

Some time ago someone posted pics of the CPU innards, and there were two PIC24-series processors in there.


Here's one of the HW REV. 2 then.

http://nt4.com/ss/alppic1.jpg
http://nt4.com/ss/alppic2.jpg

[FJR1300]

Ha, the 24F chip has negative ipt marked on it!

[radargeek]

Ha, the 24F chip has negative ipt marked on it!I think that's a hyphen they didn't wrap correctly. I indicates industrial temperature range (-40 to +85C) and the PT is the package type (quad flatpack). I got this info from the datasheet.

The PIC24FJ256GB106 is a 16 bit MCU with 256K of program flash, 16K of SRAM and USB 2.0 capability, multiple serial comm modules and up to 32 MHz (16 MIPS).
The PIC24HJ128GP204 is a 16 bit MCU with 128K of program flash, 8K of SRAM, and up to 80 MHz (40 MIPS).

I'm not sure where they get the 16/32 bit or 100 MHz from. It goes to show that a jammer doesn't need an Intel Core i7 in it to do its job well, and it's probably more powerful than the CPUs in even the newest lidar guns.

If I were to venture guesses as to what does what, I would say the 256GB106 handles the USB and communications duties (talking to the modules like the control set, RG module, USB port etc.) while the 128GP204 handles the jamming duties.

Here's the thread that has pics of the innards: http://radarandlaserforum.com/showthread.php/3154-AL-Priority-CPU-Internals

There must be a serial flash chip in there somewhere as well to store user settings and statistics, unless they're written to the program flash.

[FJR1300]

Yeah, just thought it was funny/ironic, not that it meant -ipt. ;)

[hussein]

radargeek I can't view that thread but I love the details in your post! Thanks.

[orwellophile]

something about serial flash

http://nt4.com/ss/alphwrev2spansion.jpg

yeah, there's a whopper. 8 megabyte of flash. and i would agree about chip functions. the usb capable chip is probably also doing the AesDecode() that enables everyone's firmware to be unique, it's also capable of secure aes booting, running code from ram (not that i've noticed any), and other fun things. there's an ISCP header on the left (i say that, knowing full well that PIC doesn't use ISCP) if you want to try bricking yours. there's also a green led on either side of the board that flashes nicely (as in, not too brightly).

still, i am left wondering, if there's only 256 + 128 = 384k of flash, why are our U0000000.bin files 460K?

i'm also wondering if Mark has released an open protocol for the expansion port, since I just found out my V1 has one (expansion port, and open protocol. also on a 6pin connector).

BTW, this board has some of the smallest surface mount resistors I have almost never seen.

[orwellophile]

Yeah, just thought it was funny/ironic, not that it meant -ipt. ;)

I got it. But only after 30 seconds of deciding whether or not you were an uber-expert. (Sorry, I had to vote negative) :p

And I also can't see the thread – if pulling a brand new ALP apart can't get you some respect in the secret forums where other people pull things apart, I just don't know what will. Possibly putting them back together, but I can't find the top anymore.

[FJR1300]

Nope, you're way above my pay grade in component level pc board theory!

I take things apart all the time, definitely respect like minded tinkerers and modders. :)

[radargeek]

yeah, there's a whopper. 8 megabyte of flash. and i would agree about chip functions. the usb capable chip is probably also doing the AesDecode() that enables everyone's firmware to be unique, it's also capable of secure aes booting, running code from ram (not that i've noticed any), and other fun things. there's an ISCP header on the left (i say that, knowing full well that PIC doesn't use ISCP) if you want to try bricking yours. there's also a green led on either side of the board that flashes nicely (as in, not too brightly).Actually PIC does use ICSP. And the higher end ones support JTAG as well. But it's more likely than not that AL uses the on-chip protection features to make it next to impossible to read the firmware off the chip itself. They probably use the ICSP header to flash the bootloader, and possibly the initial firmware, onto the chips during assembly.
still, i am left wondering, if there's only 256 + 128 = 384k of flash, why are our U0000000.bin files 460K?Maybe there's data tables or loadable code that gets put into the serial flash?
And I also can't see the thread – if pulling a brand new ALP apart can't get you some respect in the secret forums where other people pull things apart, I just don't know what will. Possibly putting them back together, but I can't find the top anymore.LOL... hope you can find the top! Just keep participating here and you'll be promoted soon enough.

[orwellophile]

Actually PIC does use ICSP. And the higher end ones support JTAG as well. But it's more likely than not that AL uses the on-chip protection features to make it next to impossible to read the firmware off the chip itself. They probably use the ICSP header to flash the bootloader, and possibly the initial firmware, onto the chips during assembly.

I didn't make a note of what firmware mine came with, but they would (at a minimum) be programming in the serial number (and associated decryption key) at final assembly, otherwise the sticker wouldn't match.

I confess I was not aware any PIC used ICSP, (consulting wikipedia), ahh... my error is one of AVR arrogance, the pic of course support "In Circuit System Programming", but not necessarily with the same pins, protocol (or voltages) that any of my many AVR programmers would be used to.

It was the 6 pin AVR ICSP header, I traced a couple of lines, and kind of assumed. Lets do it properly:

http://nt4.com/ss/alpicsp3.jpg
http://nt4.com/ss/alpicsp.jpg

Hmmm... pin 4 is not connected. pin 4 would be required for the programmer to send data regardless, assuming standard pinouts for pic or avr.

(shrug) as you say, there'd be nothing good to get. even the flash memory chip has a secure 256 byte area. speaking of which, if it stored the lookup tables in flash, they'd be mighty slow to use. maybe the extra space in the .BIN is for a copy of the "upgrade loader" or somesuch.



Maybe there's data tables or loadable code that gets put into the serial flash?LOL... hope you can find the top! Just keep participating here and you'll be promoted soon enough.

Oh, *facepalm*, maybe the ISCP header is to send data *TO* something. Can't imagine what, serial port would be most obvious – but don't need that many pins. some kind of LCD display perhaps. mystery.

[radargeek]

Chances are only the ALP engineers who developed the thing knows what the on-board headers are used for. Probably for the initial flash of the bootloader/serial/encryption keys and maybe for QA testing as well (test all the functions of the board before it's shipped). It may also be used for diagnostic purposes if a defective unit is sent back for repair/refurbishment. Even if it is an ICSP header, it's possible and probable that AL uses their own pinout rather than the standard one PIC programmers use. It could just be a diagnostic serial port to allow a diagnostic computer to talk to the processors on the board.

It's possible that the chips have bootloaders flashed on them even before they're installed on the board (I think Microchip offers this as a service for volume customers). They would still need serial #/encryption key info added if it's unique to each device. There's probably a computer at the factory programmed to do this, each time a board/CPU goes out it connects to the header, gives it a serial # and key, and prints the S/N stickers to put on the outside.

There's another header on the board, near the USB port. It's 6 pads inline but without holes. It looks much like a standard PIC ICSP header. And it even appears that pin 3 is ground and pin 6 is unused.